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formariz

Advice on rustproofing

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formariz

So now that I have the new van, the goal is to try and keep it the way it is as long as possible. Knowing what happened to the old one I have to do something to try and keep it from rusting. There is one place around here, Ziebart that specializes on that. Looking for recommendations on who or what to use and your experiences with this subject.

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SylvanLakeWH

I may be an outlier on this...but here goes...

 

I have never rust-proofed a car.

 

Michigan is a big snow / salt state as we sit on a huge salt mine under Detroit so its relatively cheap to use and boy do they use it...so my cars spend their lives soaked in salt for 4-5 months a year...washing it lasts for about a 1/4 mile out of the car wash driveway before the salt dust etc. starts to cake back up...

 

I only wash my car a few times a year. My wife washes hers quite often. I have noticed no difference in rust / paint condition over the years...Maybe I am just lucky...

 

Having said that, I think you end up spending more money and time on rust proofing and frequent washing of cars than the value added at the end of the day on the life-cycle of a vehicle...

 

:twocents-02cents:

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cschannuth

Rinse the underside often and make sure no mud builds up to hold moisture and it will never rust. I have several old vehicles and all are rust free. It takes a little persistence but it works. I just use a hose without a nozzle and make sure all the nooks and crannies are clean.  Washing the painted surfaces makes a vehicle look nice but is not necessary for rust prevention. Rust through always happens from the inside out. 

Edited by cschannuth
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WVHillbilly520H

The 60s-80s undercoating IMO was one big cause of rust as it chipped/peeled away it would hold all that salt ect even during washing, the other thing is around here they liquid sodium chloride for pre-treatment which I do recommend washing especially the underside within a few days, that stuff ruined the finish on a nearly new set of aluminum wheels on my old Silverado, another thing every spring after salt season go to car wash or use a pressure washer at home on the under carriage then let dry and use a high quality spray paint like VHT's epoxy enamel to keep that bottom side looking good and factory fresh, and at least a coat or two of wax every year helps as well with the body panels, I can't say how good it works as of yet but since I bought my truck straight out off lease I had the dealer apply a product called "Auto Armor" (you can check it out online) but the paint/body sealant has a 3-7 year warranty (depending on vehicle age/mileage) against rust and environmental contaminants and yellowing of the head light lenses ect also did the interior too because of the carpet and cloth seat something to think about there, back home in WV my parents area is sandstone and most roads are still dirt/gravel/tar and chip with that and the salt and dad only going out once or twice a week leaving it set all that time in between his '02 Silverado rusted before my '00, Jeff.

Screenshot_20180126-183131.png

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bj_

Fluid Film is a great product you just want to be get a good coat on and in voids like in the frame rails and in the doors.  Amazon sells the spray guns and product to do it or around here it's $150 for the first time getting it sprayed.  You can get it done for $100 around here too but they tend to scrimp on the product.  I even have it on my plow tractor I use at church where we salt heavy to clean the walk ways and front of parking lot.

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classicdmax

Fluid Film!

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Achto

Here is one suggestion that is not the cleanest but works extremely well and is low price. Every time that you change your oil, take your waste oil and spray it into known problem spots. Example: get it up between the inner and outer wheel wells, inside the door bottoms, in the rear quarter lowers, inside the rockers, and any other places known to rust. Oiled metal resists rust very well, oil will even soak into existing rust and hold it at bay. Oil will work its way to the out side where it can, but it's easy to wipe up and usually stops seeping out after a couple of weeks. Like I said this is not the cleanest method but it does work exceptionally well.

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diesel cowboy

I've been seriously considering Fluid Film myself for a couple of my vehicles after having the frame totally rot out on my 02 Ram 2500 diesel with just under 200000 miles.  One of my dads friends has a I think 1990 F350 with something like 25000 miles (yes only 25k) and he has been spraying the underside with drain oil from day 1 and has only had to change the brake lines once since then.  The frame still has the original paint and the cab corners and rockers are still solid.  He only drives it in the late fall and winter to deliver cord wood as needed otherwise it sits in an unheated barn with a dirt floor.  Downside is like mentioned it makes a mess when you do it, but he has a long dirt driveway and runs back and forth on it kicking up dust and it takes care of most of the oil drips.

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Digger 66

The problem with traditional "undercoating" is they flake , crack & eventually trap & hold moisture .

Since '06 , I have taken my viechels to a local Co. called http://www.carwell.com/ . 

They apply a oil based rust preventer that treats the body panel seams and everything else .

I don't have any pics of the underside of them but believe me when I say they look "showroom"

The car in the pic is an '08 and my Silverado is a '10 .

Both endure some of the nations toughest weather here south of Buffalo NY .

 

kiMBi7h.jpg

hkhh6jd.jpg

Edited by Digger 66
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squonk

I have Krown rust preventer on my 06 Tundra with 195,000 and an 02 4 Runner with a buck 50. no rust on either. 

 

https://www.krown.com/

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ebinmaine
14 hours ago, formariz said:

Ziebart

 

I realize everyone has their own experiences and opinions on various things... I've not been a fan of this type of rust "protection" for quite a while.

Several reasons:

It seems that some dealers "cheap out" on the application of it.

The dollars to product value just isn't there for me.

I've seen/had cars in years past that had that, or other rust "protection" OVER rust so you have to assume it corroded under what it was trying to prevent from corroding. Similar to @WVHillbilly520H Jeff's mention below.

 

 

14 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I think you end up spending more money and time on rust proofing and frequent washing of cars than the value added at the end of the day on the life-cycle of a vehicle...

 

I can definitely see/ agree with the logic here on a "normal life" vehicle and I DO follow the same advice..... But this is not a vehicle that you intend to sell/trade/scrap anytime soon so It's good to address this now. 

 

 

12 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

60s-80s undercoating IMO was one big cause of rust as it chipped/peeled away it would hold all that salt ect even during washing,

 

Agreed. See above. I've seen it happen.

 

 

8 hours ago, Achto said:

take your waste oil and spray it

 

8 hours ago, diesel cowboy said:

has been spraying the underside with drain oil from day 1

 

^^^^^^^^^^^ These two folks - IMHO -  have nailed it. ^^^^^^^^^

 

I agree with the "Fluid film" for the parts you can see. I heard tell of good results protecting plastic headlights, body corner panels, grills etc...

But for the underside:

My father's family has been spraying their vehicles with waste oil several times a year for decades and I believe it to work VERY well to slow down or stop the rust.

Once or twice a year you should use a garden hose or light duty pressure washer to get the built up crud out of crevices and pockets. Then re-spray.

 

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Sparky

What is the waste oil being put in to spray it? Is it some sort of manual pump sprayer?

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AMC RULES

Related imageRelated image

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Sparky

Thanks Craig. I have one of those but wondered if waste oil was to thick to run thru it.

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ebinmaine
1 minute ago, Sparky said:

Thanks Craig. I have one of those but wondered if waste oil was to thick to run thru it.

My father has used both... HF and others sell a sprayer for it.

He has used the hand sprayer as well and did have to open up the tip with a very small drill bit.

You can thin the oil a bit if needed.....

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Digger 66
36 minutes ago, Sparky said:

wondered if waste oil was to thick to run thru it.

 

Thin it with a bit of Diesel or Kerosene 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Digger 66
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Pullstart

Do the oil based and used oil undercoatings dry out after a bit, or what about dust/dirt buildup?  Seems like there's probably a fine line between enough and too much, or do you follow with a wait period then a carwash?

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clueless

Back in the late 70's early 80's you could still drive on some of the beaches down here. You needed a 4 wheel drive vehicle on the super fine sand and salt, this stuff would get in ever crack and crevice under the vehicle. If you didn't thoroughly and I mean thoroughly rinse the under side after you had it on the beach, you could expect some serious rust within a year or two. Now sometimes after a day in the sun and a fair amount of certain liquids, you were not in the mood or shape to spray the under side of your vehicle. On those occasions we would put an oscillating sprinkler under the rear differential for a hour or two and then under the middle, then the front. This worked amazingly well, even after a day of muddying. Not sure this would work well in 32 degrees and below weather. 

Edited by clueless

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Digger 66
1 hour ago, pullstart said:

Do the oil based and used oil undercoatings dry out after a bit, or what about dust/dirt buildup?  Seems like there's probably a fine line between enough and too much, or do you follow with a wait period then a carwash?

 

 

It does not seem to dry out .

I have an old stationary sprinkler screwed to a long piece of square tube aluminum so I can connect the ( hot and cold garden ) hose ( warm water ) and spray the underside in the spring .

All the other nooks and crannys get the 4 foot blow-gun treatment with 120 psi of air .

It does catch a lot of crapola and you have to rinse leaves and debris out but ( to me ) it's worth it .

Next time she's up on the lift , I'll snap some pics .

Even the brakelines look brand new . 

 

m93GTyC.jpg

 

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iPnJYam.jpg

 

Edited by Digger 66
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Digger 66

I buy Fogging oil in an aerosol can   at Wally World for spot touchups .

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cschannuth
57 minutes ago, clueless said:

Back in the late 70's early 80's you could still drive on some of the beaches down here. You needed a 4 wheel drive vehicle on the super fine sand and salt, this stuff would get in ever crack and crevice under the vehicle. If you didn't thoroughly and I mean thoroughly rinse the under side after you had it on the beach, you could expect some serious rust within a year or two. Now sometimes after a day in the sun and a fair amount of certain liquids, you were not in the mood or shape to spray the under side of your vehicle. On those occasions we would put an oscillating sprinkler under the rear differential for a hour or two and then under the middle, then the front. This worked amazingly well, even after a day of muddying. Not sure this would work well in 32 degrees and below weather. 

 

 Plain water is the way to go. Making sure all of the crap that can hold any type of moisture is gone will eliminate any chance of rust.   Salt isn’t  great on unprotected metal but it doesn’t do near the damage caked in mud, dirt or sand will do. I also think putting too much oil under a vehicle will attract dirt and eventually hold moisture causing issues as well.  Here is my dad‘s ‘74 wagon and my ‘92 truck which have been rinsed with water regularly since new and both look like new underneath.  And we live in Missouri where MODOT likes to make work for themselves by spreading salt anytime there is dew outside so they make sure they have plenty of roadwork repairs to make in the summertime. 

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Sarge

I love Fluid Film - since it's a type of product that films over and somewhat dries - it doesn't attract dirt if you let it sit for a day or two before driving. It's sort of a waxy coating that seems to migrate very well into crevices - the places I've just sprayed it out of the aerosol can on the old Cruiser has stopped the rust from getting worse - the stuff does work. I wish I had known more about it when I brought that thing home - it wouldn't be in such bad condition from sitting or being driven to work in bad weather, nor would I have lost the body off my old Samurai. Japanese trucks rot easily - I did treat my Tacoma a lot and the new warranty coating they use at the dealers now to stop the frame rust issue is very similar, although it has a really nasty odor and will stain concrete terribly - lot of people are pretty irritated over that. I think if you applied it per the instructions with a proper atomizing sprayer - Fluid Film would work very well on that old Ford if done yearly, I know of others around here that use it that way and it does seem to make a difference. I can see a light film of dust in the stuff on those vehicles, but other than that there is zero rust and it seems to somewhat repair itself. The stuff will come off if you use a high pressure wash spray and aggressive detergents - be aware of that.

 

On plastics such as headlight lenses, mirrors and other external/internal parts that the sun will destroy - Aerospace 303, hands down over anything else including any sort of wax or sealant. I don't understand how it does so well, but it keeps vinyl and plastic like new, no residue and no runs , no excessive buildup and those things will never crack/oxidize. The parts I've treated over the years - especially known rubber parts that love to deteriorate look like new, even black colored external plastic or matte finishes, no problems yet despite my stuff sitting outside and being driven in the harsh weather of Illinois. Two applications per year or when I wash/detail the outside and interior, the stuff lasts a long time. If it weren't so expensive, I'd coat the underside of the Dodge pickup just to try it - but plan to hit it this year with Fluid Film anyway. I plan to keep that truck a very long time - can't afford really to do otherwise so it has to last and I hate rust.

 

Sarge

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ebinmaine
3 hours ago, pullstart said:

Do the oil based and used oil undercoatings dry out after a bit, or what about dust/dirt buildup?  Seems like there's probably a fine line between enough and too much, or do you follow with a wait period then a carwash?

Yes, they do dry out......

Dust/ dirt buildup is a problem IF it's left to set. ....

which is why they're hosed off and redone 2 or 3 times per year.

 

I'm not sure there is a "too much" oil only because in my own experience "too much" simply drips off.

 

Car wash of the exterior panels - always a good idea.

 

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Pullstart

I'm reading all this advice trying to figure out what's best for me... and the new Colorado I'll be picking up mid-March.  Dealer let me know yesterday that it'll be built the week of Feb. 17!  I do have a center post lift in the garage, for applying protectant and cleaning the underside, however I decide to do. 

 

I'm trying to convince my wife that we need to instead of subscribing to her monthly unlimited car wash package, build a 3 stall garage on the house with a wash bay.  But figuring out how to do a cheap underbody flush is holding me back.  Those oscillating sprinkler ideas have my wheels turning, just need to figure out a way to get them under the surface of the floor... grates in the cement?

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