garylewa 4 #1 Posted December 26, 2017 All, What I have is a B80 Wheelhorse with a no start problem. This tractor has started flawlessly since the day I purchased it. i swapped out the battery this morning and I still get a high pitched whine noise every time i turn the key. im thinking spark plug next....I need some help here and this community has helped me past so here goes. My tractor vitals are below: ID#: 61-08K801-03936 the number 6317 is below this in another box The engine is a KOHLER Model #: K181S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 19,287 #2 Posted December 26, 2017 So when you hit the key you hear a whine? I'm thinking that your starter gear is not engaging the flywheel and what your hearing is the starter spinning with no resistance. Time to clean the starter, then treat it with some graphite lubricant. 12 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,771 #3 Posted December 26, 2017 The high pitched whine usually indicates the starter is turning but the Bendix drive gear is not engaging the ring gear on the flywheel. Could be frozen if water got in there, the spring could've broken or any number of things. Easiest to pull the starter off and have a good look at it. Is the engine turning over while you hear this whine? 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,043 #4 Posted December 26, 2017 Spark plug issue would not affect the cranking of the engine. if the engine turns over but doesn't start then spark could be a suspect. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garylewa 4 #5 Posted December 26, 2017 I got nothin but a whine sound, not even close to acheiving a turn over, I checked spark and nothing. Is the starter the round canister? I dont have the B80 manual The red round canister looks to be the ignition coil, the starter looks to be the small black part under the canister??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,572 #6 Posted December 26, 2017 Should look something like this on the back side of the motor by the gas tank 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 23,810 #7 Posted December 26, 2017 I had the same problem. Couple light whacks with the back of a screw driver to the starter shaft and freed it up...I think it was as Wallfish said - bit of water frozen after a very snowy plow session... Hasn't happened since so maybe I got lucky! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,029 #8 Posted December 26, 2017 If you follow the battery cable from the battery "+" terminal you will come to the solenoid and then the starter. Prior to starting to remove the starter remove the "-" battery terminal to prevent an accidental short. This manual should help. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garylewa 4 #9 Posted December 26, 2017 Thanks gentlemen! Here is what I did I bridged or shorted the starter to one of its mounting nuts, a spark ensued and I turned the key again and it started. I whacked on it also a couple of times very lightly.....its ready to rock again!!!!!! THANK YOU ALL AGAIN 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,029 #10 Posted December 26, 2017 36 minutes ago, garylewa said: I checked spark and nothing. Unless the engine is turning over there will be no spark. 1 minute ago, garylewa said: I whacked on it also a couple of times very lightly.....its ready to rock again! It would be a good idea to clean and graphite lubricate the starter drive so it won't let you down again. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,572 #11 Posted December 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, 953 nut said: Unless the engine is turning over there will be no spark. It would be a good idea to clean and graphite lubricate the starter drive so it won't let you down again. Yup sticky brushes, Dry bendix , dirty commutator, Bad ground. If it did it once it will do it again. Best to remove it and clean things up. If you feel taking the starter apart is above your talents, I would buy a new one. Send the old one to a starter shop get it gone thru and have a spare. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KC9KAS 4,741 #12 Posted December 26, 2017 @garylewa I wouldn't hit the starter too hard with anything, as the magnets inside can become loose or broken, then you will need a new starter! 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,374 #13 Posted December 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Sparky said: Time to clean the starter, then treat it with some graphite lubricant. 1 hour ago, 953 nut said: a good idea to clean and graphite lubricate the starter drive so it won't let you down again. 1 hour ago, squonk said: Dry bendix , dirty commutator, Bad ground. If it did it once it will do it again. Best to remove it and clean things up. Guys, I have a similar problem where-in mine will not engage... more-so when cold. What do we look for/at when rippin' into it? Flyin' springs, or other things? I'd love to fix mine instead of replacing... I didn't even know that was an option. Thanks! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skrusins 128 #14 Posted December 26, 2017 With a high pitch whine hopefully it is not a connecting rod. Don't forget if you have compression, spark and fuel it should start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackhammer 544 #15 Posted December 27, 2017 I think ebinmaine had a great question and hope it will be addressed, for more of us. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,374 #17 Posted December 27, 2017 Thanks @AMC RULES Craig ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackhammer 544 #18 Posted December 28, 2017 Craig - - - Thanks ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOB ELLISON 2,976 #19 Posted December 28, 2017 Please don't hit the starter hard. I have one that PO hit and broke the magnets in it. Now it's junk. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KC9KAS 4,741 #20 Posted December 28, 2017 On 12/26/2017 at 4:52 PM, KC9KAS said: @garylewa I wouldn't hit the starter too hard with anything, as the magnets inside can become loose or broken, then you will need a new starter! 8 hours ago, BOB ELLISON said: Please don't hit the starter hard. I have one that PO hit and broke the magnets in it. Now it's junk. See, I told ya!! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,771 #21 Posted December 28, 2017 On 12/26/2017 at 5:29 PM, ebinmaine said: Guys, I have a similar problem where-in mine will not engage... more-so when cold. What do we look for/at when rippin' into it? Flyin' springs, or other things? I'd love to fix mine instead of replacing... I didn't even know that was an option. Thanks! On 12/27/2017 at 9:16 AM, jackhammer said: I think ebinmaine had a great question and hope it will be addressed, for more of us. Just a couple of basic things to check. First thing to do is pull the starter and look it over. Dust and/or dirt and/or water gets in those spiral grooves on the shaft. Clean it but DO NOT use oil to lubricate it! Oil will allow dirt and dust to stick and the problem will persist. I use graphite which is a dry lubricant. Another thing to check is that tension spring. The gear needs just a little resistance so it doesn't just spin with the shaft. The resistance allows it to be pushed out by those spiral grooves. The gear needs to push out in order to engage the ring gear on the flywheel. So basically if your starter just spins and doesn't engage, something is going on with that gear. (Starter could also get misaligned and the gear hits the side of the ring gear) Lack of power to turn over the engine is usually electrical and now you'll need to go into the motor part if all connections to it are good. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,374 #22 Posted December 29, 2017 36 minutes ago, wallfish said: if your starter just spins and doesn't engage, something is going on with that gear. There's my issue... it'll start the engine fine when warmer out. When cold it begins to start the engine then the starter keeps spinning but the gear goes back to it's "home" position and disengages from the engine. Should I replace the spring and gear when cleaning the starter? Thanks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,029 #23 Posted December 29, 2017 38 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: Should I replace the spring and gear when cleaning the starter? The cold weather factor may be battery/cable condition or could be the shaft has oil/grease on it. Inspect the gear but replace the spring for sure. Get the battery load tested and clean the cables. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,374 #24 Posted December 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, 953 nut said: The cold weather factor may be battery/cable condition or could be the shaft has oil/grease on it. Inspect the gear but replace the spring for sure. Get the battery load tested and clean the cables. @garylewa thanks for starting this thread and tolerating us hijacking it. Dick, the battery "should" be fine. It's on a maintainer and fairly new but I'll keep it in mind. ... The cables are junk though. I'll replace them soon. Do we have a Redsquare source for the spring? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,771 #25 Posted December 29, 2017 Some of my starters have done the same thing in the past when it gets cold out. Usually just needs a cleaning and lube with graphite but inspecting it will tell you what's going on. It's a good thing to put on the "to do list" when prepping the tractor for winter. (I'm guilty of not doing it most of the time) I've had broken springs too, which seem to reveal that when it gets cold out. Nothing ever goes wrong when it's beautiful outside and you happen to have time! You can usually find a gear and spring on ebay. search 12v starter spring or 12v starter gear. Make sure it fits your starter so you may need to look up the starter number for your particular engine. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites