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Power Steering pump help

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elcamino/wheelhorse

Since there has been a discussion of GM brake lines maybe someone will have an idea what going on with my power steering pump fluid loss. Here is the specs 1984 El Camino 305 cu in auto , power everything. I have rebuild and had rebuild 2 power steering pumps due to fluid loss. Last one I figured it was leaking from the seal around pump shaft. This summer order a complete Delco unit including hoses. Still loses fluid , all connections tight , no apparent leaks on pressure side , same on return side  , can't see a leak on pump shaft. Any and all ideas including curse words that I have not used would be appreciated.

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Jerry77

This is probably no help , but I had a mid 50's car with power steering that was super hard to bleed out after rebuilding....would have swore that the oil was disappearing, but it was just very hard to bleed - would fill it and after driving for awhile I would check it and it was low..repeated this many times before it settled down..my :twocents-02cents:

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illinilefttackle
28 minutes ago, Jerry77 said:

This is probably no help , but I had a mid 50's car with power steering that was super hard to bleed out after rebuilding....would have swore that the oil was disappearing, but it was just very hard to bleed - would fill it and after driving for awhile I would check it and it was low..repeated this many times before it settled down..my :twocents-02cents:

Bleeding can be a problem in these- take your time and turn it lock to lock slowly several times- are the any leaks any where? Steering box itself leaking? If no leaks are present- you have air in the system that is coming out slowly over time. You may have to loosen a pressure line and bleed it out. Good Luck- Al

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elcamino/wheelhorse

I have been wondering about the steering box but can not see any leaks. A friend suggested sprinkling baby powder all over everything see detect leaks, nothing apparent . The  fan moves the fluid all over the place so it is like:deadhorse:. I wonder if the cap is tight enough . I am hoping some one has or had a similar problem and found a solution. 

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Big_Red_Fred

Hey Jim, run engine to temp, slide a piece of card board under gear box, go have a cup of Jo, check out RS, go back out a hour later at cool down, see if theres a leak, My 71 SS Camaro did same, on Pressure side hose i used Teflon, Dam thing always had a leak but that 396 4 speed ate fords for lunch & dinner

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squonk

Jim, any chance this has a hydro boost brake booster as opposed to a regular vacuum power brake system? 

 

This: 769409.jpg.922785fcfbe9d3635d2ef93f9072eaf5.jpg  vs this: 769937.jpg.6b1f01107572453ddc267064f56b489f.jpg

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elcamino/wheelhorse

@squonk Mike read the title. Power Steering pump , not brakes ( I open the door and slide my foot , slows down some) . I know you have a fix for the leak just waiting on your intelligent (:wacko: ) reply.

@Big_Red_Fred This is an 1984 all 155 HP with a 250 ( that is correct ) auto . It could not eat a Baloney Sandwich.

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squonk

@elcamino/wheelhorse Hydro boost brakes uses the power steering pressure for brake assist. If you have hydroboost and are loosing  fluid and don't see the leak, look under your carpet by the pedals and you will strike oil! :) :banana-wrench:

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Big_Red_Fred

@elcamino/wheelhorse Since were not on a wheel horse topic, dont you think this dash would look better on the D200 :ROTF:IMG_05341.jpg.fa5c66610b26d3f17a6355b5f70fe892.jpg

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elcamino/wheelhorse

@squonk Mike it is a regular braking system with Reservoir on top of master cylinder , vacuum assist.  The problem is the fan throws the fluid every where  so it is next to impossible to find. Could the seal above the pitman   arm on the seal box be the problem ? Use your automotive back ground.  @Big_Red_Fred The dash would look great as long as the is a Jake Brake switch. The wooden Steering Wheel would stand out.

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Forest Road

Have a guy at work w an 80 el Camino. Steering assembly went on it. If you've replaced the pump and hoses there ain't much left. Forget if it a rack or steering box. Either way time to tear it out

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squonk

Seal above  the pitman arm could very well be the problem. I believe you have the 900 series steering box. If you have never changed that seal take it to a shop and have them do it. Messy job and you need a pitman arm puller and an impact gun.

 

i didn't get the connection about the fan. I thought you were loosing fluid without any evidence of leakage. That complete Delco pump you got. Did it come with the tin tank? If not there are o-rings on the tank bolts that are easily forgotten.

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WVHillbilly520H

@elcamino/wheelhorse, have you replaced the cap/dipstick on the reservoir (that would be the most logical place for the fan to pick it up/blow it across the engine) as the cap seal will shrink over time and the vent could clog causing a "vapor lock" and allowing fluid to escape, with the BU I went from power steering to manual (sucked putting back in the carport) and back to power, when I went back I replaced the pump/reservoir assembly the pressure and return lines (from RockAuto) and a new cap/dipstick from Advance Auto like $5-6 back in there help section, and the the gear box is the still the original from '78, hope this helps, Jeff.

IMAG0724.jpg

IMAG0735.jpg

IMAG0738.jpg

IMAG0781.jpg

IMAG0782.jpg

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Sarge

There is a ton of info on the canned ham GM steering pumps and their sealing issues in the 4x4 world - might hunt there on the forums for ideas on sealing it better . The steering boxes on those 70's cars can also leak easily at the pitman arm shaft - not too bad to replace if you can get a decent enough puller to get the arm off - never strike that arm with a hammer as you will destroy the box . Replacement boxes are pretty cheap compared to most stuff too .

 

Can't recall right now - does that El use a steering cooler in the radiator ? The fittings that were soldered into the tank are a known spot to leak and engine fan will spread the fluid everywhere as well...

 

Sarge

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Big_Red_Fred
3 hours ago, Sarge said:

There is a ton of info on the canned ham GM steering pumps and their sealing issues in the 4x4 world - might hunt there on the forums for ideas on sealing it better . The steering boxes on those 70's cars can also leak easily at the pitman arm shaft - not too bad to replace if you can get a decent enough puller to get the arm off - never strike that arm with a hammer as you will destroy the box . Replacement boxes are pretty cheap compared to most stuff too .

 

Can't recall right now - does that El use a steering cooler in the radiator ? The fittings that were soldered into the tank are a known spot to leak and engine fan will spread the fluid everywhere as well...

 

Sarge

Thats exactly right, Great Find Sarge. 

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ebinmaine
17 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

The dash would look great as long as the is a Jake Brake switch.

Shouldn't even make trucks without 'jakes.

17 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

The wooden Steering Wheel would stand out.

OOOOOOOOOO......... new wheel for my horse !!!

On 10/28/2017 at 11:36 AM, squonk said:

Jim, any chance this has a hydro boost brake booster as opposed to a regular vacuum power brake system? 

 

This: 769409.jpg.922785fcfbe9d3635d2ef93f9072eaf5.jpg  vs this: 769937.jpg.6b1f01107572453ddc267064f56b489f.jpg

I'm thinkin' hyrdo-boost was only on 8- lug and heavier trucks...   ??

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WVHillbilly520H
2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'm thinkin' hyrdo-boost was only on 8- lug and heavier trucks...   ??

GM actually employed the hydro-boost on the Astro/Sefari vans, and with all the big lift low vacuum cams the aftermarket has came to the rescue with retrofit kits versus using manual brake systems,... Now back to the steering box up to '79 GM used and "standard" gearbox then '79-'80 they went to the "metric" series boxes and the SS should have the quicker ratio used on the 3rd gen Camaro and Monte Carlo SS, and for an extra tid bit the "G BODY" platform and the "S" truck use an identical front frame clip/suspension parts (A arms spindles calipers rotors steering box ect) ,Jeff.

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elcamino/wheelhorse
20 hours ago, squonk said:

Seal above  the pitman arm could very well be the problem. I believe you have the 900 series steering box. If you have never changed that seal take it to a shop and have them do it. Messy job and you need a pitman arm puller and an impact gun.

 

i didn't get the connection about the fan. I thought you were loosing fluid without any evidence of leakage. That complete Delco pump you got. Did it come with the tin tank? If not there are o-rings on the tank bolts that are easily forgotten.

It was a complete unit , got tired of shop repairing old unit. 

19 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

@elcamino/wheelhorse, have you replaced the cap/dipstick on the reservoir (that would be the most logical place for the fan to pick it up/blow it across the engine) as the cap seal will shrink over time and the vent could clog causing a "vapor lock" and allowing fluid to escape, with the BU I went from power steering to manual (sucked putting back in the carport) and back to power, when I went back I replaced the pump/reservoir assembly the pressure and return lines (from RockAuto) and a new cap/dipstick from Advance Auto like $5-6 back in there help section, and the the gear box is the still the original from '78, hope this helps, Jeff.

IMAG0724.jpg

IMAG0735.jpg

IMAG0738.jpg

IMAG0781.jpg

IMAG0782.jpg

Jeff  Replaced with a complete Delco unit from Rockauto , Cap/dip stick from advance . What vent are  you talking about ? With motor running air from fan throws crap all over front of motor and steering area etc. Between this crap, on the other side the battery tray is eaten up , second time I have had to replace. It is lucky to be me .

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WVHillbilly520H

Jim, the dipstick is hollow and is vented to the neck of the reservoir with the seal, and as you already know full cold is approximately half full as it heats up the fluid expands if the vent is clogged or the seal is torn while in operation it will seep out the cap/neck and fan will continue it's path across the front of the engine, also if that neck is warped it won't seal even with a new cap, anyways here's my cap/dipstick and fluid level as it sits right now.

IMAG3654.jpg

IMAG3655.jpg

IMAG3656.jpg

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squonk
57 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

GM actually employed the hydro-boost on the Astro/Sefari vans, and with all the big lift low vacuum cams the aftermarket has came to the rescue with retrofit kits versus using manual brake systems,... Now back to the steering box up to '79 GM used and "standard" gearbox then '79-'80 they went to the "metric" series boxes and the SS should have the quicker ratio used on the 3rd gen Camaro and Monte Carlo SS, and for an extra tid bit the "G BODY" platform and the "S" truck use an identical front frame clip/suspension parts (A arms spindles calipers rotors steering box ect) ,Jeff.

They also used HB on the full size wagons. Rebuilt dozens of them until GM said the heck with it and stopped selling rebuild kits and only offered replacement assemblies. 

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elcamino/wheelhorse

Another question @WVHillbilly520H. Can you lift the cap up when it is on the tank and in the full lock position. I have checked the rubber washer and it looks ok . Will check vent cap tomorrow since it is still raining and I hate water running down my neck. Don't want the red to wash off.

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squonk
5 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Another question @WVHillbilly520H. Can you lift the cap up when it is on the tank and in the full lock position. I have checked the rubber washer and it looks ok . Will check vent cap tomorrow since it is still raining and I hate water running down my neck. Don't want the red to wash off.

@elcamino/wheelhorse You shouldn't be able to lift the cap when it is in the lock position.

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WVHillbilly520H
23 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Another question @WVHillbilly520H. Can you lift the cap up when it is on the tank and in the full lock position. I have checked the rubber washer and it looks ok . Will check vent cap tomorrow since it is still raining and I hate water running down my neck. Don't want the red to wash off.

The spring is weak if you can do that, and like I said before, $5 replacement at AAP.

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elcamino/wheelhorse

@squonk (skonk) and @WVHillbilly520H That is what I thought , the last time I went to check the fluid , the cap pull up without coming off , then " she who must be obeyed " called me in the house and my  one brain cell slipped a cog and I did not remember the cap until this afternoon when I was not working on a :wh: or the El . A new cap and a lot of cleaning ( hope the pressure washer still works) in my week to come. Some times it is nice to be retired . Thanks guys. 

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squonk

Just don't get your suspenders caught in the fan or the hood latch! :ROTF:

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