Test firing Big Ugly and the new exhaust

[pfrederi 17,129]

Early D's had a 2 slot arrangement on the hood stand for the motion control.  Back and up was reverse back and down set the brake.  Mine has the 2 slots but the lineage doesn't engage the brake in the lower slot (sort of jams up) My brake is on the lower dash panel..  apparently the lower slot brake didn't work out well and WH changed to the dash panel brake and only one slot in the hoodstand.  however being frugal they continued to make tractors with the two slot hoodstand till they were used up,  You have to assume they made some change to the linkages to accommodate that change.  have to study the linkage part numbers for older units vs later units to know for sure.  Will look some tomorrow about that

 

CR7475 is my choice (double lip) about $12 from EB ATMUS

[Sarge 3,462]

Yeah - I used the  CR 7475 seal for the main shaft , that is what LJ Fluid Power sent with the last order . Trunnion seals are CR 6763 and the trunnion needle bearings are Koyo B-1110 . This D180 is a '74 according to the direction control linkage and engine serial and 35222b spec numbers . It does have the 3rd slot in the direction control for the parking brake . That direction control operated perfectly and park worked just fine prior to those seals starting to leak so badly and I had it out and back in last time to change the housing gasket - after that gasket change the linkage went all wrong , being nearly all reverse and no forward travel no matter how it was adjusted . I paid close attention to how it came apart this last time and the pump housing was oriented correctly - even punch marked the swash plate and housing on the inside to mark which way it came apart .

 

The only discrepancy I can find inside the pump is the drawings/parts list is showing 1 spiral pin for the control trunnion shaft - this pump has two of the shorter pins like the stub shaft side , so 4 small pins total . I'm starting to wonder if there was a change in the swash plate assembly - if it were opposite of how the one in the original pump was oriented that might limit the travel for the forward direction and lengthen the travel distance for reverse . I just checked through some pics on my phone - the aluminum housing was put back together with the fins up when I changed the housing to block gasket last time so no issue there . I did punch mark the swash plate and housing when I took it apart this time , just for reference of how it was sitting .

 

I wonder , was there any changes to the swash plate assembly block over the years ? Tempted to pull the housing cover off the old pump and have a look to see if something was changed on later model years . That swash plate seems centered in the trunnions but the clocking of the spiral pins could be the culprit although this is the first time I've had them out as LJ warned me of the needle bearings getting worn from the pistons and block hammering on those bearings as it spins in either directional position . He was right - both trunnions are starting to show signs of wear just slightly so I went ahead and installed new bearings . Now I'm curious if those trunnion shafts can be rotated 180* to get off those worn areas or not ....? The diameter mic'd out fine all the way around , they are just starting to show a wear shadow on the one side .

 

I think some of the issue is from having it apart multiple times and just getting lost - memory isn't what it used to be and years back I could disassemble nearly anything and put it back exactly correctly the first time without issue - nowadays I'm starting to wonder about that ability..lol . There has to be something I'm not seeing with that pump - it worked perfectly the first time it was installed after the machining work to the main shaft but the oil leaks are the reason it's been back out 3 times now , I absolutely hate oil leaks and these were major ones at that .

 

Sarge

[mrc 724]

hi sarge, sorry i cannot offer any advice, as i've never owned a D series wh. just wanted to say i like your posts. very insightful.  i respect your devotion to the D. last but not least i think the dual stacks are way kool!!!  best of luck  mike in mass.  

[Sarge 3,462]

The stacks turned out pretty well - love the sound but in hindsight I wish I had done them in 430 stainless steel instead . I'd still like to figure out a brace to somewhere else on that block to keep any leverage off that exhaust port design on the K-482 , it's a bit weak and cast iron to boot . The D can be a money pit and a real love/hate relationship for sure...not to mention they aren't exactly elegant in any manner...lol .

 

Sarge

[Sarge 3,462]

Spent some time yesterday afternoon working on the pump internals and getting everything surfaced and ready to reassemble . The pistons looked pretty good but measurements revealed a range greater than .002" - so they got surfaced down to within spec . Final finish is a 5 micron surfacing belt on a piece of glass . Valve plate was excellent and finished down to 6,000 Micro Mesh - I hate cutting bronze as it plugs everything up .

 

 

Valve plate prior to surfacing

 

 

After some hand work -

 

 

 

The GSD was trying to tell me it's time to get out of the shop for the night - and "where did you hide those butter cookies??"  Didn't have the heart to tell him they were tossed since they were almost a year old .

 

Hope I can get the D done this week , need to get on the parts pile for the old Clausing and get that thing in service before it rusts into a pile of dust . Moisture in the basement this summer has already surface rusted the column that I had re-finished as I hadn't been down there during the time I worked on the trailer - never noticed it was starting to corrode from the humidity despite the de-humidifier running wide open . Now , just to the left of that last pic is an old Buffalo table top drill press a friend gave me last weekend - it needs restored as well ....ugh .

 

Sarge

[Sarge 3,462]

Fired the D yesterday and ran it a bit to purge the air from the system and run the pump in a bit to seat everything again - seems to work great and it primed almost instantly . That felt pretty good - spent so much time working on this thing it's approaching the level of just being an irritant around here that I don't want to deal with . A short ride around and some final settings and the mysterious motion lever issue is gone - never did figure out why the last time it was assembled it did that , hard telling with how that direction control is built . It runs and drives beautifully , so again I was reassured why I've spent so much time and money on this thing . Wish it weren't so late in the year so I'd have good weather to finish some mods such as the overhead lights/bar and such - but it is at least in the stage it can do some work that is sorely needed around here . I did take the time yesterday to finally address that throttle control - the bushing was frozen solid to the shaft and that explains why it nearly took a hammer to move it - nice and smooth now .

 

I noticed a slight leak at the front seal on the pump , or it's just excess oil from the assembly and installation of that seal - time and more running/load will tell . I'm no fan of how that seal sits in the bore and it's close relationship to the main shaft retaining ring but the shaft is in like new condition and no wear groove yet so that's good to go . If the seal does leak it's a much easier fix since the pump doesn't have to come out - just move the engine ahead and remove the front pump bracket and have at it - so that can be dealt with later if it's a problem . I really hate leaks , if no one could tell yet ...lol .

 

Felt good enough yesterday to get this thing out and running again I just might have to stop calling it Big Ugly - maybe it's time for a new and more friendly name...

 

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,129]

For some of us leaks and  seeps are just part of our corrosion control program. I doubt any of my equipment will ever rust out from the bottom...

Edited November 25, 2017 by pfrederi

[Sarge 3,462]

Same here , but I still hate leaks . That seal is leaking pretty good , really - not sure why as I took a lot of time and care to insure it was installed correctly - even used the press to push it in so it was straight from the start . One note that came up in my conversation with LJ - any leaks can not only lose oil but they can also pull air into the pump - that is not a good thing and really can lead to a quick death for it's internals .

 

One consistent thing that has bothered me a bit every time I've assembled this thing - the engine seems lower than the pump meaning I have to put downward pressure on the coupling to start the two engine side bolts . I wonder if that is pulling the main shaft in the pump out of line with that seal - the front bearing did have a slight bit of play in it as well . Due to the way both parts are mounted it's nearly impossible to determine if everything is sitting in a perfectly straight line . The coupling is only intended to handle some misalignment due to the frame flexing but really no more than that little bit with how the D's frame is designed .

 

I guess I'll get another seal or two ordered and move the engine ahead to allow access to change the seal . I did pack the back side of the seal with grease to keep the spring from popping off but who knows....?

 

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,129]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Same here , but I still hate leaks . That seal is leaking pretty good , really - not sure why as I took a lot of time and care to insure it was installed correctly - even used the press to push it in so it was straight from the start . One note that came up in my conversation with LJ - any leaks can not only lose oil but they can also pull air into the pump - that is not a good thing and really can lead to a quick death for it's internals .

 

One consistent thing that has bothered me a bit every time I've assembled this thing - the engine seems lower than the pump meaning I have to put downward pressure on the coupling to start the two engine side bolts . I wonder if that is pulling the main shaft in the pump out of line with that seal - the front bearing did have a slight bit of play in it as well . Due to the way both parts are mounted it's nearly impossible to determine if everything is sitting in a perfectly straight line . The coupling is only intended to handle some misalignment due to the frame flexing but really no more than that little bit with how the D's frame is designed .

 

I guess I'll get another seal or two ordered and move the engine ahead to allow access to change the seal . I did pack the back side of the seal with grease to keep the spring from popping off but who knows....?

 

Sarge

Did you use the timing light approach in the TSB to see if your pump and Engine are in alignment???

[Sarge 3,462]

Not yet , but planning on giving it a shot . Not sure if that would show a horizontal alignment issue , probably better suited for an off-angle misalignment . I'm surprised by how much slop are in the engine mounting bolt holes in the frame - it can move quite a bit .

 

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,129]

I would think any misalignment would cause the rubber connector to flex slightly and that is what creates the fuzzyness under strobe.  There is a lot of wiggle room in the frame/block holes.

[Sarge 3,462]

The timing light test didn't yield much for results , but a bit of adjustment on the engine mounting bolts did sharpen the image a bit - but it still leaked . Ripped back into it yesterday and set a personal record - 32 minutes and the engine was clear of the pump . Spent longer than that hunting the Mighty Mag for the indicator since i wanted to check for any bearing wear/slop in the main shaft - it was stuck to the lathe under the travel carriage , duh -

 

 

.0003" is all I could get for play in the shaft . There's probably that much along the length in the piston block and how it seats into rear bearing and charge pump . That measurement was taken after I couldn't hardly get a wiggle out of the .001" resolution indicator - so I used the finer test indicator . Seal was removed prior to measurements .

 

I did notice it looked like the seal's metal perimeter case was wet when removed - suspect the oil was just leaking past the case . Cleaned everything up and installed another new seal - no leaks so far . Stress testing begins later this morning with hauling some dirt fill and blade work - it's our official last good day of weather and hoping for the best . Next 3 days our high temps will change by 35*F - the wrong direction from what I'd like but it is December after all in Northern Illinois...ugh . Generally , if we're treated to days this warm we'll pay for it big later - snow predicted in late week and a lot of rain tomorrow , plus high winds again . Glad my buddy traded for a newer Kubota with cab - the D might not get much seat time this winter as a result .

 

Sarge