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Do duals pop wheelies more than single rears?

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7 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

geared" up for a little :teasing-poke: at RedRanger.

Not aimed at any particular member, just a general statement on the topic of shift on the fly.

How you spend you next $ 100 bill is up to  you.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

 

 Here’s what I found in the manual for my 701. It just says to make sure to use the clutch while moving and shifting. 

 

F221AFAC-19A3-42F2-974F-2442BF257524.jpeg.9cbdb9bedcb2895ba5ecd1e30471bb03.jpeg

 

Interesting.  Yes, my 702 shift on the fly without issue as long as it's under no load.

I've never felt any grind, popping, or resistance.  I'm sure it's always best to start in the gear you need, that's why I posted this thread, but again, if it's not resisting, popping, or grinding when you shift, how can it be hurting the trans either?  Seriously asking here.  Any one?:huh:

Edited by RedRanger
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I do it to mine and any other stick tractors I've had. Not pulling anything or climbing a hill but just driving across the yard or whatever. Like manual says push clutch almost all the way down, bang the next gear and go.  

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19 minutes ago, RedRanger said:

 

Interesting.  Yes, my 702 shift on the fly without issue as long as it's under no load.

I've never felt any grind, popping, or resistance.  I'm sure it's always best to start in the gear you need, that's why I posted this thread, but again, if it's not resisting, popping, or grinding when you shift, how can it be hurting the trans either?  Seriously asking here.  Any one?:huh:

 I agree that it would only be appropriate under a no-load situation. 

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duals would be able to contribute to this, but the best advice I can offer is to add more front weight.

:text-yeahthat:953 NUT had it his first post.!!!!!!!!! good start would be front wheel weights,,,,,,Maybe even a tombstone.!!!!!!!!!

 

Good post Richard !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

                                                          857 Horse.....Stafford Va

7

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I have this same issue with my K282 on an automatic 10 with a bored out engine. That thing will dump you hard and my buddies have all found that out on their own by not listening. I am the only one that hasn't been thrown from it. Is that machine a standard?

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Guilty as charged fellas ...been known to do it once or thrice myself......more so now that I know Lowell has replacements. I know it harms the the teeth on the gear and @Racinbob  or @stevasaurushas chewed (or will chew) my butt out for saying this but a skilled, practiced and experienced operator  can shift on the fly with minimal gear damage by "feeling" the tranny and doing it smartly, load, grade and RPM considered. I realize this goes against the design of the transmission with not having syncros. Syncros are cone shaped  thingys (where's the smiley with the sign when you need him) placed in between gears to make them mesh while rotating like our old Fords & Chevs & three's on the tree for gear shifts at any speeds. Syncros were designed to wear out by default hence the saying "grind me a pound" when yer hot rod buddy had worn out ones or missed a gear!  

Shifting on the fly with our transmissions is a well hashed out topic on this forum but always enjoyable.

Sorry for going off topic Red and rambling. I would try a different belt or weights as Howard just agreed  to. Possible a different spring to ease clutch let out allowing more slip.

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I dunno Kyle....... sounded like a tad more HP than a 7 hp:lol:

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My first :wh: was a 73 8 hp and did the same thing. The belt guard tabs were not set at the proper clearance at the drive pulley. I don't remember the exact measurements but after I adjusted the tabs it would only rear up if I popped the clutch with a plow on the back.

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Ya know Red Hank might be on to something here with the belt guard/tab issue...do you have a belt finger that looks like this ?

20171004_214231.jpg

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1 hour ago, WHX12 said:

I dunno Kyle....... sounded like a tad more HP than a 7 hp:lol:

That is my 312-8

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One thing to consider :

 

Original belts were HA profile - using an A profile belt over time will wear the machined angle of the pulleys . My 1277's engine pulley was worn to the point of slipping and breaking the drive belt - so it was welded back up and re-turned on the lathe to the original profile . I use Q-Power belts on the older models - they seem to fit the HA profile better than most , especially the popular Kevlar belts from TSC and other places . The Q-Power has no cover on it , this is an old school rubber faced belt - I wonder if the Kevlar cover is dragging dirt through the pulleys and wearing out the surface of the profile ...? The A profile is a steeper angle of attack and seems like it drives itself into the middle of the profile and wears a slight curve into it - use a small straight edge and you'll see what I'm going on about . Once worn , the A profile belt will hit the bottom of the pulley's profile and start slipping - causing further damage . I've worked the 1277 very hard for a lot of years and had to switch to the newer style belts once the OEM WH belt was NLA - up to that point there seemed to be almost no wear on the pulleys - especially at the engine side . I started to have problems losing power on the hydro and that's when the wear was discovered - it was pretty severe and no NOS engine pulley to be found - so this one got welded and re-cut . It wasn't long after this fix that the frame broke from the stress - the hydro had full power now and the frame couldn't take the load - still need to fix that with a new plate/braces .

 

Look at how your belt is engaging the pulley at the engine - if it's sitting well below flush at the top this is probably the problem . The belt can drive itself in there with the slightest tension on it - which results in a pretty hard shock load through the belt since it can't really slip a little upon engagement . Even my hydro did this when the lever was engaged - it was a pretty violent jerk . Once repaired and a new belt installed it engages nice and smooth . If the belt and pulley are a correct match it should be right at flush at the top of the pulley - not towards the bottom . I've seen the same issue with mower deck pulleys - they can and do wear out from dirt being dragged through the pulley and will start eating belts in short order . Since replacing them , the same belt has lasted now for several years with no signs of wear to the drive face other than a few scars from debris cutting into the belt .

 

Sarge

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7 hours ago, Sarge said:

One thing to consider :

 

Original belts were HA profile - using an A profile belt over time will wear the machined angle of the pulleys . My 1277's engine pulley was worn to the point of slipping and breaking the drive belt - so it was welded back up and re-turned on the lathe to the original profile . I use Q-Power belts on the older models - they seem to fit the HA profile better than most , especially the popular Kevlar belts from TSC and other places . The Q-Power has no cover on it , this is an old school rubber faced belt - I wonder if the Kevlar cover is dragging dirt through the pulleys and wearing out the surface of the profile ...? The A profile is a steeper angle of attack and seems like it drives itself into the middle of the profile and wears a slight curve into it - use a small straight edge and you'll see what I'm going on about . Once worn , the A profile belt will hit the bottom of the pulley's profile and start slipping - causing further damage . I've worked the 1277 very hard for a lot of years and had to switch to the newer style belts once the OEM WH belt was NLA - up to that point there seemed to be almost no wear on the pulleys - especially at the engine side . I started to have problems losing power on the hydro and that's when the wear was discovered - it was pretty severe and no NOS engine pulley to be found - so this one got welded and re-cut . It wasn't long after this fix that the frame broke from the stress - the hydro had full power now and the frame couldn't take the load - still need to fix that with a new plate/braces .

 

Look at how your belt is engaging the pulley at the engine - if it's sitting well below flush at the top this is probably the problem . The belt can drive itself in there with the slightest tension on it - which results in a pretty hard shock load through the belt since it can't really slip a little upon engagement . Even my hydro did this when the lever was engaged - it was a pretty violent jerk . Once repaired and a new belt installed it engages nice and smooth . If the belt and pulley are a correct match it should be right at flush at the top of the pulley - not towards the bottom . I've seen the same issue with mower deck pulleys - they can and do wear out from dirt being dragged through the pulley and will start eating belts in short order . Since replacing them , the same belt has lasted now for several years with no signs of wear to the drive face other than a few scars from debris cutting into the belt .

 

Sarge

Thanks Sarge.

I'll inspect my pulleys.

18 hours ago, WHX12 said:

Ya know Red Hank might be on to something here with the belt guard/tab issue...do you have a belt finger that looks like this ?

20171004_214231.jpg

I do not believe my 702 has that wire guard.  I'll have  to check it out when I inspect the pulleys.

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My Raider 12 will also pop wheelies in 2nd gear and definitely in 3rd gear high. It didn't do it as much unless I went to 3rd gear before I loaded my rear tires and put chains on it. After Ioading the tires and adding chains 2nd gear does it. I add a huge cinder block in the front if I am towing a trailer to keep it on the ground even in low gear. Otherwise, when mowing I slow the throttle and use the throttle as a speed controller almost at the higher speeds.

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