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RedRanger

Do duals pop wheelies more than single rears?

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I've got to ask....on my 702, I'm running duals 6-12 ags.  Taking off from a standstill in 3rd is nearly impossible.  You have to ride/slip the clutch a lot and keep the throttle nearly at idle.  No matter how soft you let off the clutch, the front wants to climb in the air.  I generally have to take off in 2nd at low throttle and shift to 3rd on the fly to get moving and then throttle up.

 

I'm running a K181 up front as well as front Wheel Horse wheel weights.  Without the weights, it was deadly.

 

Taking off in 2nd is ok, but will still pull the front off the ground if not careful, even with the front weights.

Taking off in 1st is no issue.

 

Do any of you running duals have this same issue?  It's annoying as hell.  I've got no other tractor that does this.

Honestly, if I were to take off in 3rd at high throttle from a stop, it would flip over backwards.  (which it did when I first bought it)

 

Do you have to slip your clutch to get moving?  Do your rear tires hook in the sod like a gear on a chain?  Do you have to take off at idle and throttle up once moving?  Is any gear over 1st deadly?

This little stallion is a hand full!

59d5365a222bd_022(4).jpg.7591d5df58d56ad5d3d8ddc36778de76.jpg

 

 

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I didn't really get a chance to run my 854 with duals. I put the duals on another tractor that was a long frame and a diesel so had weight to keep the front down. Might need to adjust belt tension, shouldn't do that

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12 minutes ago, littleredrider said:

adjust belt tension

Agreed..... I have had a similar problem with my b80.

23 x 10.5 x 12 Carlisle ags.

I can't honestly tell you what I did to fix the problem because I was changing engine pulley size at the time.

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I'm running stock pulleys.

Correct size belt.

I think it's kevlar.  Could that be the issue?

Only tension is on the clutch pulley?  Correct?  Where is there adjustment in that?  It's either in or out...

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Posted (edited)

My 702 is almost identical to yours Red with 6/12 duals and I don't have problems unless I try to get stupid with it. My belt seems to have a good deal of slip tho and I'm thinking the belt is wearing and/or the clutch idler spring is too weak or some linkage adjustment is required as once in awhile it will throw the belt off the idler. I might try a size smaller belt too. Which leads me to my next question what brand/size of belt are you running? I have noticed the blue Huskys from TSC seem to really be grabby and all the tractors I have them on seem to be a little light in the front on takeoff!  The one on my 702 is a WH belt 9291 I think but not sure on that number!

20161112_132441.jpg

Like I said it will climb stall walls when I get stupid!

Edited by WHX12
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Posted (edited)

I'd have to look at the brand.  I forget what it was.

I know it's blue or green and I believe it was Kevlar.  On-line purchase from a belt wholesaler.

It was cross referenced to the OEM WH number.

Maybe my belt is just too grippy?

 

Weird thing is it did the same when I bought it and it had a worn out 40 year old rubber belt that was super loose.

I thought maybe it was just too much traction.

 

 

EDIT

Just found this....

This is the belt.

59d546cf35d93_020(2).jpg.30cb20d14f61bd33ecd32f23df4ef860.jpg

Edited by RedRanger
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My younger brother was able to put our Fathers 1963 953 {early model} in gear throttle up and let off the clutch/brake pedal and the front end would lift off the ground.  Wheel Horse was about 15 years old and bone stock without duals.

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That is bizarre then if it did it with an old sloppy standard rubber belt. If your belt is other than black chances are it's wrapped in Kevlar. Yes there is no adjustment on the pedal other than in, out or all the way forward to brake. I'm thinking maybe you could try a lighter tension spring? By any chance does your tractor drive make a hell of a racket when clutched like mine does? I think I have some belt slap in the guard when clutched?

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1 hour ago, RedRanger said:

I generally have to take off in 2nd at low throttle and shift to 3rd on the fly to get moving and then throttle up.

:no:            Don't do that! Unless you want to rebuild your transmission soon it is important to NOT shift while in motion.

I suppose the added traction of duals would be able to contribute to this, but the best advice I can offer is to add more front weight.

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70 incher then Red and Kevlar. I'll have to verify the WH number on mine and cross it to a length to see what size I am running. I would guess your pulleys are well worn in and burnished??

Looks like a 70  fits the IPL ...#81

Capture.JPG

4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

important to NOT shift while in motion.

I was going to mention that Dick but I want to make sure  @wheelhorseman continues to make an honest living! :lol:

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My '90 520--8 loves to take off, wheelie, in 3rd gear.

I throttle down when taking off in 3rd. Pretty much stops wheelies.

 

I never change gears while moving. Isn't that a no-no? :unsure:

 

I use Huskee Kevlar belts, inexpensive and usually on the shelf at TSC. Never had one fail.

Green belts are oil resistant and we learned while in Paris Island, "Green is to show the world we're mean." :handgestures-thumbupright:

Magic Marker, label the sleeve, i.e.: "48" deck belt", staple gun the sleeve on the shop wall.

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48 minutes ago, WHX12 said:

That is bizarre then if it did it with an old sloppy standard rubber belt. If your belt is other than black chances are it's wrapped in Kevlar. Yes there is no adjustment on the pedal other than in, out or all the way forward to brake. I'm thinking maybe you could try a lighter tension spring? By any chance does your tractor drive make a hell of a racket when clutched like mine does? I think I have some belt slap in the guard when clutched?

Nope.  No noise.

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1 minute ago, Tankman said:

"Green is to show the world we're mean." :handgestures-thumbupright:

And here to think us swabbies always just thought the jarheads were green with sea sickness:teasing-poke: ....:laughing-rolling: I remember we invited this Marine to a party once and he ...never mind don't want to steal Red's thread! :lol:

 

Good idea on saving the belt sleeve and write on it what tractor it's on

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20 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

:no:            Don't do that! Unless you want to rebuild your transmission soon it is important to NOT shift while in motion.

I suppose the added traction of duals would be able to contribute to this, but the best advice I can offer is to add more front weight.

I realize it's a no no, but.....sorry.

I promise it does not grind though.....slips right in.

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21 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

add more front weight.

Be VERY careful WHO you ask to sit on the front of the tractor....:ychain:

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4 minutes ago, WHX12 said:

And here to think us swabbies always just thought the jarheads were green with sea sickness:teasing-poke: ....:laughing-rolling: I remember we invited this Marine to a party once and he ...never mind don't want to steal Red's thread! :lol:

 

Good idea on saving the belt sleeve and write on it what tractor it's on

That's ok.  What about the Marine?  :flags-usa:

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1 minute ago, RedRanger said:

I remember we invited this Marine to a party once and he 

got green with sickness cause he couldn't handle his liquor!

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15 minutes ago, Tankman said:

throttle down when taking off in 3rd.

I do have to do that as well...

 

I remembered part of my problem at the time....   rusty pulleys.

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12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I do have to do that as well...

 

I remembered part of my problem at the time....   rusty pulleys.

I think my pulleys are all shiny and smooth.  I'm guessing my issue is extra traction of the duals and a grippy belt.

Was just wondering if others have the same issue.

Now I feel guilty about my driving habits.  :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, RedRanger said:

Now I feel guilty about my driving habits.

Bahh... no guilt...

Just idle waayy down and start in 3rd.

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Just now, ebinmaine said:

Bahh... no guilt...

Just idle waayy down and start in 3rd.

:lol:

 

It pops the front a foot off the ground just doing that.  :lol:  Heaven help you if you're pointed up hill at the time!

Got to be the belt.

 

Time for a tombstone.

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6 minutes ago, RedRanger said:

Now I feel guilty about my driving habits

 

sounds like fun... Now I gotta go see if I can get my 702 to do wheelies! :lol: :auto-dirtbike:

Just now, RedRanger said:

Got to be the belt.

Trade ya belts?? ...not up a hill heavens no...lets get the right tombstone!

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49 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

:no:            Don't do that! Unless you want to rebuild your transmission soon it is important to NOT shift while in motion.

I suppose the added traction of duals would be able to contribute to this, but the best advice I can offer is to add more front weight.

 

 I’ve always heard you’re not supposed to shift while in motion but the manuals for the older tractors seemed to indicate it is OK to do so. I’m going from memory here but I was surprised to read that a while back. I have a manual for a 701 and 606 and both, if I remember correctly, have instructions on how to shift while moving. I’m old though so maybe I read it wrong. 

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8 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

 

 I’ve always heard you’re not supposed to shift while in motion but the manuals for the older tractors seemed to indicate it is OK to do so. I’m going from memory here but I was surprised to read that a while back. I have a manual for a 701 and 606 and both, if I remember correctly, have instructions on how to shift while moving. I’m old though so maybe I read it wrong. 

 

 Here’s what I found in the manual for my 701. It just says to make sure to use the clutch while moving and shifting. 

 

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