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jeff lary

I need non Wheel Horse Advice

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My sister and her husband have 2 old John Deer riding mowers I guess both have their issues so they only use them as a last resort. The other mower ( the go to mower) yep they have 3 is a newer? Red Craftsman I don't yet know the model or the year but I will soon I think.

  This past spring for some reason the engine " seized / will not turn over all of a sudden". At least I think that is what she had told me. I know they don't have much money to take it to a shop so I offered to try to help? God only knows what I think I can do,.. but she is my sister and  has been good to me over the years now she has MS and they really need some good fortune. I guess they will tow the mower over to my home (1/4 mile away) maybe this weekend then we will try to figure out what to do to get it going again if we can.

Here is where the advice portion of my post comes in. Do any of you know of a good forum where I can ask advice as I delve into this engine. I really like Red Square but I think the management really wants only wheel horse talk here so that is why I am asking for advice. I think this is a Craftsman engine but I guess it might be a Kohler, but I really doubt it is but who knows. Thanks for any input I really appreciate it, Jeff

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Start a thread in other brands Jeff and I'm sure the fellas will be along to help out. Be ready to have model nos & pics of what you might be working on. Good luck.

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Well I may be a lost cause already ha ha..... I did not know we had a " other brands" forum I will go look for it now. But I know what you mean about being ready with pictures and model numbers. Thanks a bunch I will go look for it now, But I will wait till I have more information before I make any posts. Thanks again Jeff

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1st question will be ..."does it have oil in it?"

 

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I will have to ask about the hydro part. Yes I assume it has oil but of course I will check. My bil is a very long term truck driver many years on the road I am pretty sure it has oil ..but I will check.

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Probably a vertical shaft - if hydro it will have a release for the hydro so you can move it around..probably located on the rear sheet metal..

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Good points guys ....yes look for that tow valve if it is a hydro Jeff.

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Ok guys I will remember that. I am assuming he will want to bring it to me this weekend but I am not sure. So of it is a hydro and has this tow valve and I am able to find it....will it harm it to tow it 3-4mph for about 500 yards?

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No not at all just go slow... some later Peerless and Tecumseh have a lever or a rod that must be positioned for towing. should be labeled or in the manual if you have one. If all else  fails you can get the rears up on a cart or dollies for a short haul.

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13 hours ago, jeff lary said:

Ok guys I will remember that. I am assuming he will want to bring it to me this weekend but I am not sure. So of it is a hydro and has this tow valve and I am able to find it....will it harm it to tow it 3-4mph for about 500 yards?

:twocents-02cents:               If in doubt you can take along a two wheel dolly, jack it up and ratchet strap the dolly under the rear end to keep the wheels off the ground.

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Ok so I went over after work and looked it over. It is a Craftsman DYT 4000. It is Hydro my sister thinks. I still have not talked to my brother in law. It has an18.5 hp Intek Plus engine. Model 917.273640. According to my sister it had been burning oil a long time and smoked a little (rings maybe?) she has MS and it is very hard for her to get around and he works all night delivering freight between ME and NH . So they had the grand daughter mowing for them. The girl said she was mowing and it just quit,.. the starter when engaged will not turn the engine over. I am guessing that maybe the ring or rings broke and is binding up the works. I guess that is what I can think of. Like I said the tractor is not here and may not be till Sunday but this is what I know for now. The engine is filthy it had the crank case breather hose come off at one point and covered the motor in a fine mist of oil then you mow with it and viola you have a very nasty mess under the hood. 

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   If I can remember how I will post a few photos of the tractor I took today. The pics just show the tractor, the flywheel cover text, a under hood label, a speed? gauge thing... and the trans shift pattern . There was a question as to weather it was a hydro or not and I hoped this info would help. Sister says yes it is a hydro.

   I don't really have anything to add as stated before I do not even have the tractor here yet. This may sound stupid but I came back to this thread trying to plan a way to copy and paste this into the "correct forum"( " Other brands") but it looks to me like some very good soul has already moved it here for me? if so thanks,.. if not I will try to figure out how to get it moved but looks to me like it is now in the right place. Jeff

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sounds like it's time to look for another motor to drop on sorry yo say, no good can come from what you are saying about what happened to the motor and the stuck motor, sounds like a rod left loose

 

 

 

 

 

eric j

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Posted (edited)

 If you have to do an engine swap, here is an entertaining, yet thorough account of the issues that you may encounter. Briggs engines are equipped with many parts that will swap from engine to engine and that is covered as well.. This video is a Briggs intek like you have in your mower.  Taryl  also has how to change lawn mower belts because changing them can be much more difficult on these vertical shaft engines. i had to raise my engine out of the frame to change the transmission belt as an example

  But first, you have to see if the engine is truly stuck, and all you should have to do is pull the spark plugs out, remove the plastic flywheel screen, and turn the flywheel.

 

 

Here is probably the info on the tractor. http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/000/9/6/964-craftsman-91727382.html

You can get free info from Briggs on engine manuals. I will try to find some as well

Edited by ohiofarmer

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Posted (edited)

Thanks time will tell I guess.

 If it were me I think I would just park this beside the road and ask $50.00 for it. I had thought some of suggesting a Predator engine swap but I have never done anything like that before either. I can just imagine all the hassles involved in that type of swap. I really don't know if the tractor is worth putting the money and time into an engine swap?

 I figure if this were up and running and ready for mowing it might bring $ 400.00 up here. I bet a new engine would be more than that all by itself. He has this plus a couple " newer" models of John Deer tractors. I think each has it's own problems as well. I told them to put them all 3 out next to the road and ask $ 500 for them the lot,... then take the $500 and put a few with it and just buy a different used mower. The issue is I know they just don't have the extra cash to do that. Thanks for the link and trying to help that is why I came here I knew there would be someone that knew a lot more than I !

 

Edit, please don't take offence to this but I cannot watch this dude ,by fast forwarding ahead several times I made it to the 5 minute mark  but I could not stand him any longer. I have see him in the you tube world before and I think he does do some interesting stuff,.. but he is just too silly for me.

Edited by jeff lary
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1 hour ago, jeff lary said:

 

Edit, please don't take offence to this but I cannot watch this dude ,by fast forwarding ahead several times I made it to the 5 minute mark  but I could not stand him any longer. I have see him in the you tube world before and I think he does do some interesting stuff,.. but he is just too silly for me.

 

im with you on this, might want to try Mustie1 on yt then

 

 

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3 hours ago, jeff lary said:

Thanks time will tell I guess.

 If it were me I think I would just park this beside the road and ask $50.00 for it. I had thought some of suggesting a Predator engine swap but I have never done anything like that before either. I can just imagine all the hassles involved in that type of swap. I really don't know if the tractor is worth putting the money and time into an engine swap?

 I figure if this were up and running and ready for mowing it might bring $ 400.00 up here. I bet a new engine would be more than that all by itself. He has this plus a couple " newer" models of John Deer tractors. I think each has it's own problems as well. I told them to put them all 3 out next to the road and ask $ 500 for them the lot,... then take the $500 and put a few with it and just buy a different used mower. The issue is I know they just don't have the extra cash to do that. Thanks for the link and trying to help that is why I came here I knew there would be someone that knew a lot more than I !

 

Edit, please don't take offence to this but I cannot watch this dude ,by fast forwarding ahead several times I made it to the 5 minute mark  but I could not stand him any longer. I have see him in the you tube world before and I think he does do some interesting stuff,.. but he is just too silly for me.

 

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Posted (edited)

 I had your first reaction to this guy as well. The thing is, he gives excellent information on all the little variations that are common to the Briggs  .If you try to get a Sears fixed at a local mower shop, they often sneer at you and say they have no way to match their computer to the numbers that you give them. I imagine that Taryl's [ AKA Tim Gross] real life lawn mower shop is very successful in that he is willing to do what is affordable to his customers to save them money.

 

 For example on the Briggs , there is an automatic electric fuel shutoff valve on some and not others, Some models will have electric clutches and it takes a beefed up generating coil to run them.What Taryl says on this video covers all that and he takes parts off the old engine and re-uses them on the new swapped motor. I posted his link because it probably was stuff that you or anyone could use before they made a mistake on which engine to buy. For example, i can not imagine that a Predator would work in this application.

 

 This guy made all the difference in my [free] big husky that i keep on the farm. It ain't a wheel Horse, but I would never keep my Horses up there where someone might break in and steal them. I replaced the drive belt and the transmission just would  not function. The taryl video explained that the only belt that would function properly was OEM and now I have a mower that works. I like Mustie as well, but Taryl gets it done quickly and with good detail that seems to cover the little variations in lawn mowers.

 

 No, i am not offended, but just thought i would post this in case some of you may be missing out on some good repair videos

Edited by ohiofarmer
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I agree there are good points to be made in some of these videos. He mentioned fuel pump electric clutch and a few other things in the first few minutes ,oh yea muffler too. After I got to thinking about just those issues I began to see the end before we even got started ha ha.

  I am glad you are not offended, I am a hard working guy a very no nonsense sort of person I guess. I was in the woods at 6:30am and just came home now 4pm. I just don't like to listen to someone acting so silly I really have no patience for it I guess ha ha. I bet he is clever but I just cant go him ( "go" ) is a phrase a friend of mine and I use to describe spending time listing to or visiting with someone. Thanks for the Predator advice I really figured that would be plan "B."

 I know bil has almost zero time to work on this unit so I thought I would try to help him. His mom is 95 and is quite ill he goes to see her on Sundays in the mornings for a few hours to give his sister the "caregiver" a break,.. so all he has for time really is the later half of Sunday afternoons.

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Posted (edited)

We had a apple cider pressing get together out to cam today and I got to see my bil. For now he wants to get the engine off the tractor and see if we can figure out why the engine will not turn over. He is hoping it is a broken connecting rod , something we can try to get parts and fix. Time will tell probably I will keep you informed as we go. He was asking though , how do you get the crank out if we need to I guess this engine is horizontal - east /west  piston travel. I told him I had no idea but if we need to,.. we have a good place to ask about it.

 

Edit, the first thing he wants to do is remove the engine and we would be doing that outside. The weather today is not cooperating so we will wait till another day to get started. I wanted to make this post because I do value all the help I am sure we will get from you all. But if anyone has been following this thread they might have expected a post on todays progress,.. and there will not be any progress today.

Edited by jeff lary
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  I would find the engine model and serial #s and post them here

 Briggs usually have the numbers impressed into the tins that are fastened on the motor. You can google "where to find serial number on briggs model [blah bla blah] for results. You could also remove the spark plug to make the engine easy to turn and note if it has a hang or a clunk that might indicate a broken connecting rod or something.

 

 I doubt that i would attempt new pistons or rods, because the likelihood is high that the bearing surface of the rod and crank are compromised with a resulting short life. It might be easier to do an engine swap for the time and money involved., or swap maybe the rear end of your mower on another Craftsman with a good engine and bad transmission

 Take plenty of pictures and use a paint pen to mark the holes that the carb linkage goes in so it can be returned to the correct location.Keep looking along the curb for mowers set out for the trash man. You could get lucky and find a free swap motor. It happens

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Model number on that Briggs probably on the valve cover. Is usually on the top side of the cover. When they have that plastic cover on top that is 

where the number is.

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Well we had our first work afternoon . The engine is out on my bench but we cannot get the" base or short block cover" (in his little owners manual it was called one of these names?) off. I have to believe that the cover is designed to come off over the crank shaft. but I swear it acts like the cover and shaft are all one unit. We got the bolts all out and the cover separated about 3/8 or a 1/2 inch but it will not come off the engine. We just wanted to look inside to see what broke. How does this cover come off ? With the cover / base/ short block cover opened up a little,.... the pieces of steel, C-Clip, the spring and the pieces of steel fell out on the white paper towel, the seal we took out.

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I despise Briggs & Stratton Engines.  I have never had one which I felt like gave dependable service for its cost & refuse to buy anything with a B & S engine any more.  Considering what fell out, may only be the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, and an engine swap is most likely going to be the cheaper option to trying to rebuild the engine you have.  That is probably not what you were hoping for.  Checking the yellow pages in your locale and making phone calls might very well locate a suitable engine on a mower with other problems, rusted out deck, bad transmission, etc which could be obtained at a reasonable cost.  Best of luck with completing your project. 

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