Bucking horse!

[pabird 40]

My neighbor has a 314 8 speed that will pull the front wheels off the ground if you let out the clutch at full throttle. Even at low rpm it grabs very hard and throws you back. I've removed some covers and looked around. There is a hydraulic assist cylinder involved and it seems to be working. The belt looks good as do the pulleys. Any advice?

 

[520hC-120 136]

, I think someone in here might know the problem sorry I cannot help

Edited September 26, 2017 by 520hC-120

[rmaynard 14,865]

Make sure that the belt is the correct length and width, and that it is fabric covered. Most guys swear by the Toro/Wheel Horse brand. Check the guides on the engine and belt cover. Check pulleys on both the engine and the transmission to be sure they are clean. If the return spring is too strong, and the damper weak, that can be a problem. The position of the clutch pedal can also be a factor for some drivers.

[953 nut 51,536]

54 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

belt is the correct length and width, and that it is fabric covered

      Presuming you were able to shift gears with the engine running and clutch depressed it is like Bob said, fabric covered belt will be the solution.   Take the old belt to Tractor supply to have them match it up to a new Kevlar belt.

[Daddy Don 887]

[Searcher60 208]

Mine does the same thing, I hate it. The answer I think is to fork over about $100 dollars for a new hydraulic damper/spring assembly. To say for sure, I'd have to fork out the $100. My cylinder is bad, and I just installed the $8 spring instead of the $100 damper. Maybe somebody else could comment. Before the hydraulic damper, when WH only used the spring, did you have to let the clutch out really easy in 3rd gear to stop from pulling a wheelie and jerking your guts out? I'd like my belt to slip a little instead of grab at full throttle in 3rd.

[pabird 40]

Thanks guys, I'll have to look again but I'm almost certain the belt is cloth covered. If I had to guess I'd say it is a Wheelhorse belt as the dealer is just down the street. They told her nothing was wrong but I don't buy it. It's downright dangerous. Is there a way to test the cylinder? Can I remove the cylinder and see how things work without it? 100 bucks for that little cylinder is robbery! I'm going to take another more in depth look at that thing to understand how it works.

 

[Searcher60 208]

The cylinder has the spring inside it also. The cylinder lets the clutch engage very slowly when it is working properly. 

[pabird 40]

Thanks guys, I'm going to take a close look at it later so I can understand how it works. My C-161 8-speed has a spring only and works fine. What makes this horse different? Overall the machine looks very close in design to the 161. Why the need for the cylinder?

[953 nut 51,536]

7 minutes ago, pabird said:

Why the need for the cylinder?

Probably Attorney driven decision.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,488]

6 hours ago, pabird said:

My neighbor has a 314 8 speed that will pull the front wheels off the ground if you let out the clutch at full throttle.

That's normal. If it did not do it there is something wrong. Slow the engine down so it better matches the rpm of the transmission which is 0. Once the belt is fully engaged increase the rpm.

 

Even at low rpm it grabs very hard and throws you back.

With slower rpm the belt engagement will be smoother and will likely glaze the belt and improve the engagement with use.

 

Garry

[Searcher60 208]

28 minutes ago, pabird said:

Thanks guys, I'm going to take a close look at it later so I can understand how it works. My C-161 8-speed has a spring only and works fine. What makes this horse different? Overall the machine looks very close in design to the 161. Why the need for the cylinder?

Please let me know the answer.

[pabird 40]

Gary, thanks for the input but it's hard to believe this is normal. Yes engaging the clutch at idle is less intense but only because of the idle speed, the engagement is still instant. I'm going to play around with it for a while and as a last resort replace the cylinder if she's willing to pay for it.

I'll post something for those interested whether she pops for the cylinder or not.

[oldredrider 2,547]

Not sure on this one, but I think if you adjust the clutch rod so that the belt engages sooner, the geometry of the idler pulley will change giving you a smoother engagement. Just throwing it out there.

[pabird 40]

Thanks oldredrider, I'm going to try everything and anything anyone can come up with.

I just cant understand why it won't launch smoothly just by feathering the clutch pedal. I can buy the fact that the cylinder will reduce the force on the pedal but why can't I achieve the same result with my foot.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,488]

It may be simply because the pedal force is too light to get a good feel for it. This was a common problem back in the day when cars and trucks had gear transmissions and the manufacturers lightened the pedal pressure for comfort. Even seasoned drivers had problems. They increased the pedal pressure and everyone was happy.

 

Garry

[Tuneup 1,416]

pabird

It's always best to start from square one and for this issue that is to replace the belt with a new, uncontaminated fiber belt. Go to the 3 pulleys involved and scrub through any contamination. I'm sure there is some. Nothing to rub the belt  but clean and shiny metal. Ensure that no fluids had them contaminated and remove the source of it. Prior to that model design, the cylinder wasn't in place. If the non-cylinder was OK for 25+ years, it must have been OK for engagement and the cylinder is simply an improvement. In this litigious world, it may have become necessary - who knows?

 

In the end, something's grabbing and must be found and smoothed.

[pabird 40]

Thanks for the advice Tuneup. As you and others suggested I removed the covers again today and looked closely at the belt and pulleys. The belt looks to be in perfect condition and appears to be an OEM part. I wiped the pulleys and didn't find anything but surface dirt, very minor. I put it all back together and started to play with it. I found that it is possible to feather the clutch enough to launch fairly smoothly at high RPM but it is a very touchy thing to do. Not at all user friendly! I gave the neighbor lady the bad news about the cylinder and she's thinking about it. I don't expect her to spend the money but we'll see. I hope she does so I can satisfy my curiosity. I'll report back with the results if she gives the go ahead.

[Rob R 951]

For my two cents I had the same issue with my Suburban SS15... all I did was replace the HEAVY Duty stock Clutch spring with a lesser (lighter duty) Clutch spring and added a really small light spring on the bottom of the lever..... results....... easy clutch engagement, super Clutch lock-up at the half way point and three times the belt life......