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joskuk

My New 416-8

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joskuk

This is my first Wheel Horse garden tractor. I've always liked the design of these horizontal-shaft tractors. About 4 years ago we bought a larger property and got a cheap used lawn tractor for mowing and pulling stuff around, it worked good enough. But 2 weeks ago the engine crapped out, so I decided on getting a larger tractor.

 

After looking for a week or so, I found a 416-8 with the Kohler Magnum, 866 hours. I took a look and it seemed decently maintained, everything seems to work but it definitely needed a tune-up. Next thing I know I'm heading home with it.

 

Yesterday I took care of a lot of maintenance items:

  • New Air Filter / Pre-Filter
  • New Spark Plug
  • Oil Change
  • Cleaned everything really good
  • Drained fuel tank of unknown age gas

 

The only thing wrong with it right now is once you go a little past half throttle it sputters out a bit and doesn't run quite right, I have heard it backfire (not really loud) if I lower the throttle quickly. But it runs very well from idle up to half throttle and seems really torquey.

 

I was thinking the carb is due for a cleaning, but this is my first Wheel Horse, first Kohler, etc. I would love to hear anyone else's opinion. Tomorrow I could record a video too if that helps, and of course get some better pictures.

File_000 (2).jpeg

File_000.jpeg

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rjg854

:WRS:   Your new purchase looks decent, hope you get it running like it should.

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ohiofarmer

Since my 400 series is not a Kohler, I might be all wet in my advice, but here goes. The gas tank is under the seat and [probably] lower than the carburetor. It might be that the fuel pump is not performing up to par. Take the fuel line loose at the carburetor and crank the engine to see how much fuel comes out. If the flow is anemic, then put a slave tank  above the engine and re-test to check fuel flow/ see if the sputtering disappears. If it does, well then you can concentrate on either a partially clogged fuel filter or the fuel pump itself.

  Also you might just disconnect the fuel line at the tank and observe the fuel flow to see if there is any blockage, but in draining the fuel, you probably know that already

 Even if you go into the carb, many times it is just dirt in the bowl interfering with the float height and not something internal. I am a big fan of doing the simple stuff first before tearing into something that has gaskets that may need replacing

 

BTW, I think that you have a good tractor there. There are  people here that know plenty about them and are generous in sharing advice

Edited by ohiofarmer
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SylvanLakeWH

:text-welcomeconfetti:

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520hC-120

Nice tractor, all 4 of my wheel horses have needed a carb rebuild but once its done you will never have to do it again :)

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953 nut

:WRS:         The old gas probably was regular ethanol added gas and has left nasty little deposits in the fuel system. buy a can of Seafoam fuel additive and mix it with some ethanol free gas at twice the rate called for on the can. Also, a few shots of carburetor cleaner directly into the air intake of a running engine (throttle open as far as you can get it) may clear some internal deposits.

I did this six years ago on one of mine and have had no further problems.

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Wishin4a416

A thumper 416.   Nice!!!

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grinchsr

I own 3- 416's and a 414 you are going to love it.  Just maintain it and you will have it a long time.  Carb rebuild kit number is-25 757 02 S and check the throttle shaft side play

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Achto

:WRS: Great looking tractor!

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joskuk
5 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

Since my 400 series is not a Kohler, I might be all wet in my advice, but here goes. The gas tank is under the seat and [probably] lower than the carburetor. It might be that the fuel pump is not performing up to par. Take the fuel line loose at the carburetor and crank the engine to see how much fuel comes out. If the flow is anemic, then put a slave tank  above the engine and re-test to check fuel flow/ see if the sputtering disappears. If it does, well then you can concentrate on either a partially clogged fuel filter or the fuel pump itself.

  Also you might just disconnect the fuel line at the tank and observe the fuel flow to see if there is any blockage, but in draining the fuel, you probably know that already

 Even if you go into the carb, many times it is just dirt in the bowl interfering with the float height and not something internal. I am a big fan of doing the simple stuff first before tearing into something that has gaskets that may need replacing

 

BTW, I think that you have a good tractor there. There are  people here that know plenty about them and are generous in sharing advice

 

When I was draining the fuel tank itself the flow was very good, so no issues there. I'll have to take the line off the carb and see how the flow is after the pump. As far as the carb goes, couldn't I just remove the bowl and clean all of that out, or would that require a new gasket?

 

 

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

:WRS:         The old gas probably was regular ethanol added gas and has left nasty little deposits in the fuel system. buy a can of Seafoam fuel additive and mix it with some ethanol free gas at twice the rate called for on the can. Also, a few shots of carburetor cleaner directly into the air intake of a running engine (throttle open as far as you can get it) may clear some internal deposits.

I did this six years ago on one of mine and have had no further problems.

 

 

I actually just filled the tank, is there a different method to seafoam the engine?

 

 

3 hours ago, grinchsr said:

I own 3- 416's and a 414 you are going to love it.  Just maintain it and you will have it a long time.  Carb rebuild kit number is-25 757 02 S and check the throttle shaft side play

 

I already love it! I have done a little bit of reading and it seems I have the Walbro fully-adjustable carb, is that the right kit for it?

I'm young so I've never had to deal with carbs on my car, and all the small engines I've had were not worth doing carb work. So I don't really know a lot about them, is there a video/good instructions on rebuilding a carb on the Kohler Magnum?

 

# on carb looks to be 4505370

 

File_000 (1).jpeg

 

Thank you, everyone, for the fast replies and good information. Feeling very welcomed to Req Square!

Edited by joskuk
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953 nut
6 minutes ago, joskuk said:

I don't really know a lot about them, is there a video/good instructions on rebuilding a carb on the Kohler Magnum?

@T-Mo did a great job on this tutorial, look it over and you will see how easy it can be. Click on the fuzzy picture to open it.

 

10 minutes ago, joskuk said:

just filled the tank, is there a different method to seafoam the engine

Just add as much as you can and then add more later, doesn't take much.

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oliver2-44

Consider replacing fuel hose  and adding a filter if it doesn't have on. Also on the carb check if the throttle shaft has any side to side movement.  The excess movement of the shaft lets air leakage in. With the excessive leakage I find I can adjust the carb to run good at idle to medium rpm. But at medium or more I have to start opening the choke to get it running better. If the throttle shaft is loose there is a recessed area on the top of the carb body (that may have originally had a dust seal in it ) . At most ACE or good hardest stores they have an area with lots of drawers of small special nuts bolts bushings knows etc. they will have some small brass washers   Iothere on here shared this, and I found 2 Hillman 58087 brass washers were a tap fit into that recess. If the throttle shaft is a little tight I take a 1/4" drill bit and work it by hand to open up the washers a tiny bit. I've done this on 2 old carbs and have been amazed at how mych reducing that air leakage helps. 

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joskuk
8 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Consider replacing fuel hose  and adding a filter if it doesn't have on. Also on the carb check if the throttle shaft has any side to side movement.  The excess movement of the shaft lets air leakage in. With the excessive leakage I find I can adjust the carb to run good at idle to medium rpm. But at medium or more I have to start opening the choke to get it running better. If the throttle shaft is loose there is a recessed area on the top of the carb body (that may have originally had a dust seal in it ) . At most ACE or good hardest stores they have an area with lots of drawers of small special nuts bolts bushings knows etc. they will have some small brass washers   Iothere on here shared this, and I found 2 Hillman 58087 brass washers were a tap fit into that recess. If the throttle shaft is a little tight I take a 1/4" drill bit and work it by hand to open up the washers a tiny bit. I've done this on 2 old carbs and have been amazed at how mych reducing that air leakage helps. 

 

Was thinking the same on the fuel hose, it's not cracked but could use a replacement. And there is no fuel filter that I saw, did these tractors not come with a fuel filter? I'll check out the throttle shaft today but if it is the throttle shaft has side to side movement in it could I not replace the throttle shaft? Sorry for the confusion, I just don't understand what exactly would be wearing out to require adding washers.

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oliver2-44

The throttle shaft and the hole in the carb housing wear over time. A new shaft fixes half the wear area. By adding the washers your moving to a part of the throttle shaft that is not worn and the washers become an unworn part of the housing.   

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joskuk
13 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

The throttle shaft and the hole in the carb housing wear over time. A new shaft fixes half the wear area. By adding the washers your moving to a part of the throttle shaft that is not worn and the washers become an unworn part of the housing.   

 

Thanks, I didn't realize the carb housing itself was wearing out. However, on my carb the throttle shaft only has a tiny bit of play in it, it seems normal. I barely see movement inside the carb when I move the throttle shaft side to side.

 

I took the panels off the motor and found the spark plug wire has its conductor exposed, and the wire from the magneto (I think) to a wiring harness is getting worn out as well.

I know I need to replace the spark plug wire, but it looks like it is part of the magneto. Do I need to replace this whole assembly?

File_001 (1).jpeg

File_000 (4).jpeg

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joskuk

Well, I found a parts diagram for the engine and ordered a new "ignition module" for 25% off, only $76. Also have a new gas cap, tie rods, and a gear shift knob coming.

 

I brought my carb to a Kohler "Expert Dealer" (happens to be the place I got parts for years) to get the carb rebuilt. I didn't trust myself to do it, I'd hate to mess something up and need a new carb.

 

And I also got new fuel line, but I wasn't sure on the inline filter. This motor has a fuel pump, so does it need a specific type of inline filter? I remember reading about someone having issues after adding an inline filter on a motor with a fuel pump.

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wheelhorsebuckeye

Mice love to chew on the magneto plug wires. I have replaced two because of them. My 414-8 and one on a 312-8. Make sure you set your gap correctly.

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JERSEYHAWG /  Glenn

Best of luck and  :text-welcomeconfetti:      :wh:

 

 

Glenn

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joskuk
10 minutes ago, wheelhorsebuckeye said:

Mice love to chew on the magneto plug wires. I have replaced two because of them. My 414-8 and one on a 312-8. Make sure you set your gap correctly.

 

Are you talking about the gap between the magneto and the flywheel? It didn't look like that was adjustable.

 

Or spark plug gap? Which I set the gap to .025 on the new plug I put in, according to the manual.

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wheelhorsebuckeye
1 hour ago, joskuk said:

 

Are you talking about the gap between the magneto and the flywheel? It didn't look like that was adjustable.

 

Or spark plug gap? Which I set the gap to .025 on the new plug I put in, according to the manual.

The magneto, the gap between it and the flywheel should be .012"/.016"

 

I added a couple files that were a big help to me. Section 8 of the service manual page 8.3 is your ticket.

 

 

 

 

Edited by wheelhorsebuckeye

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richmondred01

M16. The best engine ever made by Kohler.

 

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joskuk

Thanks for all the info, it looks like a pretty simple job. The ignition module should be coming in Saturday. 

 

I'm excited to get it all put back together, and most of all I want to drive it longer than 5 minutes!

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joskuk

I got the ignition module in the mail and the newly rebuilt carb from the shop. Installed both of them, got the engine all covered up and tweaked the carb. It is running really nice! No misses or skips, no strange sounds. The muffler is cracked where it joins the exhaust on the engine, and it is causing a little popping while going downhill. I would like to replace the muffler, hopefully they are not crazy expensive.

 

I also got to mow our lawn, which was way overdue and quite tall. The 416 powered through it without any struggle and it came out looking great. I really love mowing with this tractor, it rides nice over our bumpy terrain, and it doesn't scalp the lawn like our lawn tractor did. The 8-speed is not geared the best for mowing though. My original plan of fixing the lawn tractor's motor and dedicating it to mowing is going to need to be rethought, maybe a hydro wheel horse is in my future :o

 

On another note, I also got a 2" receiver and the plow/tiller bracket that goes around the axle from Wheel Horse Parts & More. Really nice stuff, seems well built and looks nice too.

 

And.... I have LED sealed beam replacements I put in, plus 3 other auxiliary lights I will be installing soon (2 front fender lights, 1 rear facing). There is a lot going on with this tractor right now.

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richmondred01

looks good.

all the best

Edited by richmondred01

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Cvans
22 minutes ago, joskuk said:

The 8-speed is not geared the best for mowing though.

Can you elaborate on this please. I would think with 6 forward speeds and 2 in reverse that the right speed wouldn't be a problem. 

 

 

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