312-8 vs 516-H purchase?

[Hoffertot 4]

Hello fellow Wheel Horse fans,

 

I have owned a 312-8 for a few years now, and it has been very good to me. The unit was obviously purchased used, and at the time of purchase I didn't notice that the 42" deck that came with it was much older than the mower. The deck I have has always been pretty junkie, but now started to have some actual issues. The center double "D" pulley has rounded out, and a spindle has broken. I have been looking into getting repair parts, or just buying a different deck all together since i can't find very reasonably priced ones. So here is where the question comes in.

 

I have found a reasonably priced unit in the area for sale that is a 516-H model. So a little larger engine, year or 2 newer, a 48" working deck, and hydrostatic would be a nice upgrade for me, but it sounds like this model was considered undesirable. Is this just because of the technology that was starting to exist at the time of it's release, or was it considered to not be that great of a machine? My 312 has about 1800 hours, and the mower itself runs great. The 516 apparently does not have working gauges at the moment, and burns some oil.

 

Any opinions on what you guys would do in this situation? Any opinions between the 12HP Koehler  and the 16HP Onan engines?

 

Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.

[ACman 7,505]

Just my   ... If the 516H has wiring gremlins (as do the 520H's) and is burning oil I'd stay away . Onans are expensive to rebuild and the 16hp doesn't share some of the same parts as the 18/20hp engines . Just keep looking for a deck or a hydro tractor with deck. 

[Jerry77 1,218]

18 minutes ago, ACman said:

If the 516H has wiring gremlins (as do the 520H's)

516H wiring problems - not so much - only has ammeter and fuel tank gauges...but the tranny is a weak hydro ( eaton 700)...and the engine is expensive to work on.. as far as being a good machine - it is a 500 series and built tough...in the long run if you only need it for mowing, you are probably best off getting a decent deck for your 312...

[dells68 7,494]

I'm like Jeff.  I'd stick with the 12hp Kohler.  You can't beat a kohler and Onan's are more expensive to maintain with parts being hard to come by sometimes.  Depending on the structure of the deck itself - rotted out or not - I'd consider fixing it or look for another complete deck.  But, that's just me!

[Ed Kennell 35,591]

If you only use it for mowing,  I would stay with the  312 that you have.   The 12 will turn a 42" deck without breathing hard.     The Onans  throw so much heat, I only use mine for blowing snow.

 

Good used  DD deck pulleys very hard to find and expensive.... I have a few.    

       You should be able to find many working decks in your area for  $200-$300.    Just check the spindles  for noise and side to side "slop",

and remove the belt cover and check that the  deck idler tensioning system is free and working.    The are usually not working, but are fairly easy to clean up and fix and it will provide a price bargaining  chip for you.

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Ed Kennell

[Hoffertot 4]

43 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

If you only use it for mowing,  I would stay with the  312 that you have.   The 12 will turn a 42" deck without breathing hard.     The Onans  throw so much heat, I only use mine for blowing snow.

 

Good used  DD deck pulleys very hard to find and expensive.... I have a few.    

       You should be able to find many working decks in your area for  $200-$300.    Just check the spindles  for noise and side to side "slop",

and remove the belt cover and check that the  deck idler tensioning system is free and working.    The are usually not working, but are fairly easy to clean up and fix and it will provide a price bargaining  chip for you.

 

Thanks Ed. I currently use it for both mowing and snow blowing but never had any issues with the mower bogging down. 

 

I have an idea I am going to try for a down and dirty fix to hopefully get a mow or 2 in to give me some time to think/purchase parts. The idler system is in good working order, but the bearings on the spindles are shot. Getting ready to install some new ones this weekend. The other end of the spindle uses roller bearings(not replacing, at least now), which kind of concerns me because the spindle shafts are non-greaseable. Hopefully I can get back up and running soon, been a lot of rain lately and will probably need to do some cutting soon.

[ACman 7,505]

Could someone post a pic of the deck in question  . I also have several decks laying around. Who knows maybe I have what you need .  All it will cost you is gas and your time (just over 2hrs.)  ! 

[Hoffertot 4]

1 hour ago, ACman said:

Could someone post a pic of the deck in question  . I also have several decks laying around. Who knows maybe I have what you need .  All it will cost you is gas and your time (just over 2hrs.)  ! 

ACMan, here are the pictures I have on hand, can get some better ones after work if you are interested in seeing them.

 

Here is an overview of the deck. It is not the unit that came with the mower, and by looking through manuals I am guessing it is a late 60's to early 70's model. If you recognize it, please let me know

 

Here is a side view of the center pulley in question. It is a double pulley with 2 sizes, I believe it's a Toro 106847. Not a lot of luck finding any for sale in my brief searching.

 

Here is the worn section of the pulley, and what I believe used to be a double "D" shape to fit on the mower shaft pictured above.

 

If you have some replacement parts that would be great! But I may also be interested in a whole deck you happen to have options.

 

Thanks.

[ACman 7,505]

All three of mine have a different attachment point as far as spindles and pulleys being the same I haven't got a clue . This ones off a1276 I know it mows but has a hole in the side .

 

 

The other two have the rounded belt guards like yours . One of them is on my 1057 . Its  super quiet and has one rust hole . The one on a Commando 8 . I don't see any holes in that one but haven't herd it run .

Edited July 28, 2017 by ACman

[953 nut 51,488]

       You have the good fortune to live it the middle of  country. You should be able to find a good deck within a short distance from home. The deck @ACman is offering you will fit your attach-a-matic and route the belt through the mule drive just like the present deck. The deck is the older style, but the blades are readily available and the good parts from your present deck will fit it.

Edited July 28, 2017 by 953 nut

[ACman 7,505]

OOOH MAN...the cuz and I have first dibs on a C120 , a C160 and a 12hp Kohler with broken rod for $250  ! What to do  I might have two more decks coming soon to choose from . I can make room for them but the wife won't be happy ... what's new  !

Edited July 28, 2017 by ACman

[Ed Kennell 35,591]

I'll check my DD pulleys tomorrow.

I have considered boring out the center and welding in two DD washers, but never actually tried it.

[608KEB 794]

I have a simular  deck. It's 48" and came with a 1975 C-120 Automatic. 

[boovuc 1,090]

I notice a lot of WH decks for sale in my part of the USA but............way out of line prices. (1200 bucks for a NEW deck that doesn't look new to me. 700 bucks for a LIKE NEW deck. 400 bucks for one with a shot coat of primer and a coat of Sunrise Red). In fact, I see ridicules prices on anything Wheelhorse. But people buying drive those prices so it is what it is!

 

And in regard to the OP, it took a few years but I finally rid myself of my Onan powered 400 and 500's. Don't get me wrong on my feelings about Onans. (Pulpit warning). 

 

When they run they are the best powerplant WH put on these machines for pure power and torque. 48" and 60" decks in high grass never make the Onans work that hard . Especially with hydro powered machines that rob horsepower verses the gear drive tractors.

When I had my loader mounted 520-H, it was a fantastic little hauler and my 416-8 speeds, which still mowed and performed well when sold were great workers with more power than I ever asked of them.

But when they start to give you carb, heat, electrical, oil burning and valve seat issues, they are a bear to get back to where they were. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

For mowing with a 42" or 48" deck on board, the intake screen on the magneto side plugged with grass clippings so much so you are constantly leaning forward and wiping grass off of it. Way too many times during a single mowing! If ignored......well, your Onan turns into an aluminum heater!

If I want a twin-cyl Wheelhorse, I look for a Kohler KT17 Series 2 or twin magnum. You guys that are fortunate to have a low hour Onan with good compression in each cyl are blessed. I love how they run, sound and perform but I won't bother with them anymore. The single Kohler K and Magnums and the Kohler twins made AFTER the original KT Series 1 are the ones to own. Even my Series 1 KT on my C-175 with one top-end overhaul has way over 1500 hours on it and still is a strong tractor doing level snowblower duty. Which anymore is only two hours a year so it's retired but will do small jobs on the side. 

Truth be told, I sold several of my Wheelhorses this Spring and will sell a couple more and some carcasses I have in the shed. I bought a used Orange machine to replace my 520 loader. (And I can mow with the FEL on if need be plus a 3 point on the back that Wheelhorse should have had as an option on the 520-H).

The ones I kept, (5 total), are Kohler powered. If I buy another Wheelhorse, it will be an Xi mower with power steering. Did I get spoiled? Oh yea! And my back, neck and poor arthritic hands thank me after each mowing. 

 

[Ed Kennell 35,591]

OK, here are the DD pulleys I have.

Send me a PM if you are interested in any.

 

 

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

18 hours ago, ACman said:

All three of mine have a different attachment point as far as spindles and pulleys being the same I haven't got a clue . This ones off a1276 I know it mows but has a hole in the side .

 

 

The other two have the rounded belt guards like yours . One of them is on my 1057 . Its  super quiet and has one rust hole . The one on a Commando 8 . I don't see any holes in that one but haven't herd it run .

  The deck shown here is actually the one I prefer. The side drive takes a shorter and cheaper drive belt, the pulleys are probably cast iron, and the spindles are steel and easy to remove. I think I see a grease nipple to the discharge side of the pulley and there is a little pipe under the deck that takes the grease to the spindle.  I certainly could use another deck like this on a tractor that came without one. In all probability, the blades are double D with the DD hole in the center and two holes to the side that fit on drive pins. These blades can still be bought in the aftermarket

 

 Whatever you do, do not throw that deck away. It looks like a good candidate for a rebuild. On Edit:  I see that the belt guards are sealed over the top of the spindles. so i am certain that they grease from the side

Edited July 29, 2017 by ohiofarmer

[Ed Kennell 35,591]

      That is the deck I have on my Raider 12 and it has the cast DD pulleys and the greasable   spindles.     The shells are well built and deep so there is very little blow out of grass.    This is one of my best decks.   My only complaint was the single roller in front  allowed scalping when making turns on hilly lawns, so I added a anti scalp roller on each front corner.    BTW, the deck is designed for the older side drive swing arm. but works equally well on the current front mule drive system.

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Ed Kennell

[Hoffertot 4]

Hey guys,

 

Just thought I would give a little update on the damaged pulley situation. I mentioned that I was going to work on a temporary fix to try and save the rounded out pulley. I have completed that fix, and have successfully completed a full mow with the modifications. In case anyone is interested, here is what I did.

 

First I took the damaged pulley and drilled 3 holes all the way through centering the hole in the groove on the pulley. This allows for the heads of some bolts I will add to press flatly against the pulley surface.

 

I then used the existing spindle bolt, and drilled a hole through 2 3/16" steel plates that I made. The corners of the steel plates touch the edges of the pulley outside diameter. I took the 2 plates shown below, and welded them together for a little extra rigidity.

 

I then welded the spindle bolt to the steel plates, and drilled some holes to match the holes that I drilled into the pulley. This allowed me to put 3 bolts and nuts through the pulley and secure it to the steel plate and screw combo I made. I made sure the spindle bolt was as centered as possible to the center hole in the pulley. Finished assembly shown below.

 

I finally had to cut the excess bolt off of the new fixture and install back onto the mower deck. Here is the final assembly shown below.

 

I don't know how long this will last, or if it is the best solution for this type of problem, but it has worked for me so far, and was a worthwhile attempt at saving the pulley since I could not find a new one. Thanks for all of the previous help as well!

[Big_Red_Fred 1,547]

Would my 42sd deck work for him off my C125, all the parts are good, just the deck has large holes that were patched Half Azz LOL @ACman

[ACman 7,505]

I have not a clue ...???

[Big_Red_Fred 1,547]

Friday coming Fast, a New Horse to the Family, SK486 @ACman

[Ed Kennell 35,591]

Looks good....keep us posted on the long term results.   So you have basically made a pulley with a center stud that screws on to the spindle.

My only concern is the stud is now transferring all the torque from the pulley to the spindle and is probably the weak link.

I know WH at some point ended the DD system and went to a keyed pulley/spindle. And after that, they eliminated the keys and relied only on the center bolt to create enough  friction between the pulley and spindle faces to lock the two together.   Your fix is not too far from that.

[ACman 7,505]

I see there's a deck for sale near you but it's a rear dish charge but your ingenuity with basic tools you might have found a solution ! 

 

If that does'nt work ...could you leave the center bolt out weld two tabs of metal on your plate to fit the flats of the spindle. Weld tabs to bottom of spindle too along with your three bolts . Slide pulley over and bolt the spindle back on . If that makes any sense   ?

[Hoffertot 4]

2 hours ago, ACman said:

I see there's a deck for sale near you but it's a rear dish charge but your ingenuity with basic tools you might have found a solution ! 

 

If that does'nt work ...could you leave the center bolt out weld two tabs of metal on your plate to fit the flats of the spindle. Weld tabs to bottom of spindle too along with your three bolts . Slide pulley over and bolt the spindle back on . If that makes any sense   ?

I take it you mean to basically make a plate bolted on the top and bottom of the spindle like i have but with the double D shape cut into them correct? If so, I would assume it would work especially having steel on steel instead of cast iron. Although you would lose surface area, so you may risk rounding out again and potentially damaging the spindle shaft.

 

If this rig ends up breaking and I still haven't come up with another solution yet, I'll have to look into something like this

 

Thanks

2 hours ago, ACman said:

I see there's a deck for sale near you but it's a rear dish charge

Also, what are you using to check what's for sale in my area?

[ACman 7,505]

@Hoffertot your same design with the one plate on to but with two pieces of metal welded  to the bottom of your plate . These pieces would fit through your rounded out hole riding on the flats of the double d spindle . It would be tricky to get a good tight fit , heck fill the sides (between the pulley and your two pieces of metal) with JB weld . Then bolt your pulley back on . I'll send a pm with link to deck but I always search using "wheel horse" and another with one word "wheelhorse" . I also always search forsale "all" as people put things under antiques , collectibles and such .