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Texas Todd

K341 Issues

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Restored a C-160 for son-in-law. Didn't do any engine work on the K341 other than adjust the valves.

He has put about 12 hours on it this year and then yesterday, after mowing for quite a while, the RPM's jumped up very high and smoke started pouring out of the breather. He shut it down immediately.

I was over there today and we tinkered a bit. He had already adjusted the governor. Started it up and at low RPM it didn't smoke but I did notice a knock.

Revved the engine to 2500-2800 RPM and the smoke came pouring out of the breather again.

Oil level is fine.  The knock certainly is concerning as is the smoke.

 

Any suggestions short of a tear down? Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Texas Todd said:

suggestions short of a tear down?

:text-imsorry:           No magic answers!         :twocents-02cents:            best to address this before the block has a non-factory vent path!

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Yep. Really didnt wanna tear it down, but looks necessary. 

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Sounds to me like a "busted Piston" with the smoke, maybe lost one governor weight?

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I wonder if somehow the breather assembly got put in upside down when you adjusted the valves. Mine came out sort of all at once and i had to look up how to put it back in. i do not know if it would cause oil puking problems, or even worse damage the engine.

 

 Anyway, there is an excellent video showing how to install the breather correctly.[at about 15:40]

 

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I am not seeing anyway other than a tear down. Oh well. It was too "all of a sudden" for something minor I suppose.  He will check the breather but I would think that would show up before 12 hours.......

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21 hours ago, R. L. Addison said:

Sounds to me like a "busted Piston" with the smoke, maybe lost one governor weight?

I agree....Ihave  as k341 that the nor disintegrated and top part of the piston in a similar manner. 

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Finally got around to tearing into this, this morning.  Is the white exhaust valve normal? I took some pics of the head and gasket.

20170903_122822_1504460103048_resized.jpg.f82a02e2be6ddfac6e57fa593ee97d74.jpg

20170903_122856_1504460104108_resized.jpg.6a11ff44323833949d87f355c9fc96a7.jpg

 

20170903_122910_1504460104814_resized.jpg.8f644c65947ac3684908739378c1769b.jpg

 

Drained the oil. No metal stuck to a magnet as the oil drained. Turning by hand, Nothing out of the ordinary. I could hear the governor weights flapping and valves seemed to operate fine.

I put a drill motor on the flywheel and spun it as fast as the drill motor would spin. Nothing out of the ordinary. Everything felt tight and working as it should.

 

Don't have time to pull the engine and look inside today. Haven't checked the valves, but just wondering if anyone sees anything obvious. Pics of both sides of head gasket taken. Nothing looks obvious to me.

 

Any clues before I pull the engine sometime this week?


Thanks!

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The white valve indicates too much heat. Three primary reasons for this condition: Timing too far advanced, lean carb mixture or poor air flow across the head or a combination. 

I would check the timing first. 

I would also do as recommended and check assembly of the breather.

My guess is the excessive heat is actually causing the oil to vaporize and burn causing the white smoke.

Until these suggestions are investigated, I see no need to tear into the bottom end. It's, in my opinion, a top end problem.

P.S. check to make sure the spark plug is the correct heat range.

Edited by oldredrider
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On 7/16/2017 at 3:21 PM, Texas Todd said:

did notice a knock.

 

22 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

Timing too far advanced,

Paul is right on the money here. The heat from timing too far advanced will over heat the combustion chamber and cause it to knock. I presume the cooling fins were clear of build up when you removed the tins. Here is a method for setting the timing. If your flywheel cover doesn't have a timing sight hole to view the mark from you will need to remove the cover.

Kohler static_timing.pdf

59ac49503a029_Kohlerstatictiming.JPG.1d71f8e45fa295321c43ea226fa3d2f7.JPG

 

Edited by 953 nut

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I would not tear this down yet. The valve may be white because you didn't leave enough clearance when you adjusted the valves. In other words, you mite have screwed up the valve adjustment and the exhaust valve clearance is to tight not allowing the valve itself to cool properly.  Best thing is to do is a leak down test. But, you will have to buy a leak down tester at like Harbor Freight. Or, you could check and adjust the valves to the proper clearance and try it again. 

 

My money is on you screwed up the valve adjustment. You have to get the clearance right. 

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Thanks for the advice. If the timing was off or the valves were out of adjustment would it take 12 hours for it to show up? I put a new hour meter on it when I restored it. I think it is at 12.8.

 

I will certainly start with the valves and timing....thanks guys. I am certainly capable of screwing up the valve adjustment, or anything else, just ask my bride....... 

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On 7/16/2017 at 3:21 PM, Texas Todd said:

after mowing for quite a while,

My presumption was that this may have been an unusually hard day allowing it to overheat more than previously. Hope adjustments are all that is needed.

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I think that is when the problem showed up, but when I first worked on it, it was cold.

 

Thanks guys. Will report back with the results. 

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Well I got er tore apart and the exhaust valve was well out of tolerance. Intake was right. Did the static timing routine and buttoned her all back up. Fired right off and ran pretty good. Was still getting some smoke out of the breather vent, but it seemed to be dissipating when I heard a gremlin leaving the engine...well at least I know what it sounds like when a connecting rod breaks loose.

So I begin the re-tear down process and sure enough.....

Shattered.jpg.27f668e801ec951739204e9deae9bbe6.jpg

 

The worst part of it all is being told when I bought this that his dad bought it knew and never did anything but keep the oil changed...."never gave us a minute's trouble."

 

and then I wire wheeled the piston face and saw the +.030. That's a real bummer......never a minute's trouble he says.....:angry-nono:

 

Think I will call it a day and not labor the rest of this labor day...

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Pretty scored, but not terrible. If it was an STD piston, I would have em both turned. Now im thinkin Predator.

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Have you considered having it sleeved?

 

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2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Have you considered having it sleeved?

 

No I hadn't, but that is worth looking into. I am unaware of anyone around here that does that kind of work, but they must surely be here. Worth a few phone calls. Have to measure the crank to see if it has another turn left in it.

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I'm not sure one of these blocks can be sleeved. Who in here has had one sleeved? There can be many problems overhauling a k-341. You need to check behind your machine shop to make sure they do not screw up. Which ever piston and rod you use needs to be of the correct weight and match the weight of the piston and rod that orginally came in your K-341. Why? Because the extra vibration will bust out your $38 headlight bezel, the filiments in you headlight bulbs, and cause cracks in the metal. That's why. Every clearance needs to be checked and double checked. There is a piston clearance error in one Kohler book. Be very, very, careful.

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Well good news and maybe good news.

 

Shop in the next town can sleeve it for about a buck 50. He also suggested trying a +.040 piston. I didn't know they made em .040, I thought .030 was the limit.

 

I am going to take it in next week and let him look at the crank before deciding what to do. He said turning the crank was about a hundo.  He punched a K181 for me a few months ago for 55 bucks.

 

May come down to the crank. Any way you slice it, it will be about $250-$350 for the rebuild. Makes me wonder if I wanna put that much in the old engine or not.

 

 

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Just so you will know, Kohler does not make a .040, Taiwan does however.  $100 for the crank is high, going rate is $75-80. $150 for the sleeve sounds right. 

 

i would like to see a pic of the piston that was in it when it blew. Would you post a pic? Is there a Kohler part number on the remains of the broken rod? 

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4 minutes ago, Searcher60 said:

Just so you will know, Kohler does not make a .040, Taiwan does however.  $100 for the crank is high, going rate is $75-80. $150 for the sleeve sounds right. 

 

i would like to see a pic of the piston that was in it when it blew. Would you post a pic? Is there a Kohler part number on the remains of the broken rod? 

I will look and post what I can. I saw that the recommended dealer  BAKT4KIDS had a+.040 on fleabay. I have purchased a couple of kits from them over the past year as well with good results thus far.

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