Texas Todd 1,024 #1 Posted July 16, 2017 Restored a C-160 for son-in-law. Didn't do any engine work on the K341 other than adjust the valves. He has put about 12 hours on it this year and then yesterday, after mowing for quite a while, the RPM's jumped up very high and smoke started pouring out of the breather. He shut it down immediately. I was over there today and we tinkered a bit. He had already adjusted the governor. Started it up and at low RPM it didn't smoke but I did notice a knock. Revved the engine to 2500-2800 RPM and the smoke came pouring out of the breather again. Oil level is fine. The knock certainly is concerning as is the smoke. Any suggestions short of a tear down? Thanks! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,015 #2 Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Texas Todd said: suggestions short of a tear down? No magic answers! best to address this before the block has a non-factory vent path! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #3 Posted July 16, 2017 Yep. Really didnt wanna tear it down, but looks necessary. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R. L. Addison 299 #4 Posted July 17, 2017 Sounds to me like a "busted Piston" with the smoke, maybe lost one governor weight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohiofarmer 3,155 #5 Posted July 17, 2017 I wonder if somehow the breather assembly got put in upside down when you adjusted the valves. Mine came out sort of all at once and i had to look up how to put it back in. i do not know if it would cause oil puking problems, or even worse damage the engine. Anyway, there is an excellent video showing how to install the breather correctly.[at about 15:40] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #6 Posted July 17, 2017 I am not seeing anyway other than a tear down. Oh well. It was too "all of a sudden" for something minor I suppose. He will check the breather but I would think that would show up before 12 hours....... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 8,770 #7 Posted July 18, 2017 21 hours ago, R. L. Addison said: Sounds to me like a "busted Piston" with the smoke, maybe lost one governor weight? I agree....Ihave as k341 that the nor disintegrated and top part of the piston in a similar manner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #8 Posted September 3, 2017 Finally got around to tearing into this, this morning. Is the white exhaust valve normal? I took some pics of the head and gasket. Drained the oil. No metal stuck to a magnet as the oil drained. Turning by hand, Nothing out of the ordinary. I could hear the governor weights flapping and valves seemed to operate fine. I put a drill motor on the flywheel and spun it as fast as the drill motor would spin. Nothing out of the ordinary. Everything felt tight and working as it should. Don't have time to pull the engine and look inside today. Haven't checked the valves, but just wondering if anyone sees anything obvious. Pics of both sides of head gasket taken. Nothing looks obvious to me. Any clues before I pull the engine sometime this week? Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #9 Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) The white valve indicates too much heat. Three primary reasons for this condition: Timing too far advanced, lean carb mixture or poor air flow across the head or a combination. I would check the timing first. I would also do as recommended and check assembly of the breather. My guess is the excessive heat is actually causing the oil to vaporize and burn causing the white smoke. Until these suggestions are investigated, I see no need to tear into the bottom end. It's, in my opinion, a top end problem. P.S. check to make sure the spark plug is the correct heat range. Edited September 3, 2017 by oldredrider 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,015 #10 Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) On 7/16/2017 at 3:21 PM, Texas Todd said: did notice a knock. 22 minutes ago, oldredrider said: Timing too far advanced, Paul is right on the money here. The heat from timing too far advanced will over heat the combustion chamber and cause it to knock. I presume the cooling fins were clear of build up when you removed the tins. Here is a method for setting the timing. If your flywheel cover doesn't have a timing sight hole to view the mark from you will need to remove the cover. Kohler static_timing.pdf Edited September 3, 2017 by 953 nut Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #11 Posted September 3, 2017 I would not tear this down yet. The valve may be white because you didn't leave enough clearance when you adjusted the valves. In other words, you mite have screwed up the valve adjustment and the exhaust valve clearance is to tight not allowing the valve itself to cool properly. Best thing is to do is a leak down test. But, you will have to buy a leak down tester at like Harbor Freight. Or, you could check and adjust the valves to the proper clearance and try it again. My money is on you screwed up the valve adjustment. You have to get the clearance right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #12 Posted September 4, 2017 Thanks for the advice. If the timing was off or the valves were out of adjustment would it take 12 hours for it to show up? I put a new hour meter on it when I restored it. I think it is at 12.8. I will certainly start with the valves and timing....thanks guys. I am certainly capable of screwing up the valve adjustment, or anything else, just ask my bride....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,015 #13 Posted September 4, 2017 On 7/16/2017 at 3:21 PM, Texas Todd said: after mowing for quite a while, My presumption was that this may have been an unusually hard day allowing it to overheat more than previously. Hope adjustments are all that is needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #14 Posted September 4, 2017 I think that is when the problem showed up, but when I first worked on it, it was cold. Thanks guys. Will report back with the results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #15 Posted September 4, 2017 Well I got er tore apart and the exhaust valve was well out of tolerance. Intake was right. Did the static timing routine and buttoned her all back up. Fired right off and ran pretty good. Was still getting some smoke out of the breather vent, but it seemed to be dissipating when I heard a gremlin leaving the engine...well at least I know what it sounds like when a connecting rod breaks loose. So I begin the re-tear down process and sure enough..... The worst part of it all is being told when I bought this that his dad bought it knew and never did anything but keep the oil changed...."never gave us a minute's trouble." and then I wire wheeled the piston face and saw the +.030. That's a real bummer......never a minute's trouble he says..... Think I will call it a day and not labor the rest of this labor day... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #16 Posted September 4, 2017 Did it get the crank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #17 Posted September 5, 2017 Pretty scored, but not terrible. If it was an STD piston, I would have em both turned. Now im thinkin Predator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,015 #18 Posted September 5, 2017 Have you considered having it sleeved? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #19 Posted September 5, 2017 2 hours ago, 953 nut said: Have you considered having it sleeved? No I hadn't, but that is worth looking into. I am unaware of anyone around here that does that kind of work, but they must surely be here. Worth a few phone calls. Have to measure the crank to see if it has another turn left in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #20 Posted September 5, 2017 I'm not sure one of these blocks can be sleeved. Who in here has had one sleeved? There can be many problems overhauling a k-341. You need to check behind your machine shop to make sure they do not screw up. Which ever piston and rod you use needs to be of the correct weight and match the weight of the piston and rod that orginally came in your K-341. Why? Because the extra vibration will bust out your $38 headlight bezel, the filiments in you headlight bulbs, and cause cracks in the metal. That's why. Every clearance needs to be checked and double checked. There is a piston clearance error in one Kohler book. Be very, very, careful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #21 Posted September 6, 2017 Well good news and maybe good news. Shop in the next town can sleeve it for about a buck 50. He also suggested trying a +.040 piston. I didn't know they made em .040, I thought .030 was the limit. I am going to take it in next week and let him look at the crank before deciding what to do. He said turning the crank was about a hundo. He punched a K181 for me a few months ago for 55 bucks. May come down to the crank. Any way you slice it, it will be about $250-$350 for the rebuild. Makes me wonder if I wanna put that much in the old engine or not. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #22 Posted September 6, 2017 Just so you will know, Kohler does not make a .040, Taiwan does however. $100 for the crank is high, going rate is $75-80. $150 for the sleeve sounds right. i would like to see a pic of the piston that was in it when it blew. Would you post a pic? Is there a Kohler part number on the remains of the broken rod? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #23 Posted September 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, Searcher60 said: Just so you will know, Kohler does not make a .040, Taiwan does however. $100 for the crank is high, going rate is $75-80. $150 for the sleeve sounds right. i would like to see a pic of the piston that was in it when it blew. Would you post a pic? Is there a Kohler part number on the remains of the broken rod? I will look and post what I can. I saw that the recommended dealer BAKT4KIDS had a+.040 on fleabay. I have purchased a couple of kits from them over the past year as well with good results thus far. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #24 Posted September 6, 2017 I will never buy from him again under any circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Todd 1,024 #25 Posted September 6, 2017 Oh? Do tell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites