My plan to get the c-141 running

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

 I got a c-141 yesterday that had been garage kept and the owner inherited it with his house.  A very exciting find for $200 as it includes a solid deck and a very nice pusher blade. It also looks very nice and clean for its age.

 

 Like any non-running tractor, you can expect a few problems. First, the starter nose gear is heavily worn and so will not engage. It is a Massachusetts built Bosch starter, and I have borrowed one from another tractor,  I thought it a good idea to remove the engine tins to check for mice nests, but there was a great deal of dried oil gunge suggesting a blown head gasket. i found the only head bolts that were anywhere near tight were the two closest to the exhaust. There are no scratches in the piston bore, but at TDC, the valves can be rotated . I have cleaned the engine and plan to adjust and lap the valves. The front of the piston top has eroded a bit and you can see a bit of the top piston ring. I suppose it could be due to all that grunge build up on the cooling fins from the loose head bolts

 

 I did notice that the tractor has an electric fuel pump. I used the pump to empty the tank and the gas was pretty good as it appeared to have Sta-Bil in it. In any case it still smelled pretty much like it should, but i pumped it out anyway and used it to clean up the engine.

 

 Does this sound like a good plan? I know some of you would just do a complete rebuild, but i already have one tractor in pieces to paint

[R. L. Addison 299]

I don't remember pulling more than one or two pistons out of  Kohler engines that were not  showing a bit of the top ring. I wonder if the location of the spark plug could in some way be at least a contributing factor.  The plug location was moved for the "M" series and maybe that was at least part of the reason.

[953 nut 51,536]

I think you would be best off having the cylinder measured at a machine shop prior to buying a refresh kit with standard piston. The cylinder could be out of round near the middle of the stroke.

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

 Good idea to check things out while the bore is visible.  I think that even a bore gauge from China might be OK to see if the bore has egged out in the middle of the stroke. I want to get the valves correct and button it back up and then start the machine to see if it smokes or not. Surprisingly, the valve stems and head area really do not have heavy carbon build up.

 

 So here is the gauge set I will buy. If the quality is not there, HFT is pretty good about return and refund. https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-telescoping-gauge-set-5649.html

 

  Maybe I should use feeler gauges around the outside of the piston to get an actual measurement of the piston erosion.  Thanks for the good ideas

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

   Well, I do not like what I see.......

 

   The eroded area of the piston showing the ring edge is pretty slight at the top of the bore, but the gap gets visually  larger as the piston descends into the bore. My perception is that the piston ring has got to wear the piston grooves somewhat wider leading to blow-by and when you consider the ring is changing size back and forth at each RPM, ---The wear rate will probably accelerate in a more or less geometric progression.. i will buy the gauges for the knowledge of just how bad the problem has become.

 

 The valves seal tight at TDC as they held penetrating oil in them for at least a half hour until I rotated the engine

 

  I still need to get the tractor running if possible as I want to check out the transmission and see how the lower end of the engine sounds...It is a shame because it is such a pretty girl in original condition and not repainted.

Edited July 3, 2017 by ohiofarmer

[Dakota8338 115]

Looks can be deceiving, Farmer.  If It runs, has adequate power and doesn't appear to be using anything over a minimum amount of oil, I would use it until there appeared to be a greater need for a rebuild.  My

 

Sometimes one can spend a great deal of time and effort for very little improvement in a machines performance, be it a small engine, or a larger engine.

 

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

The plan here is still want to hear that engine run, but I am pretty sure a rebuild is coming and this is why. First, the head was way too clean from someone being in there and the head bolts were not very tight at all. I figure the seller just wanted to play dumb and say that he never ran the tractor. He did say that the PO had it running and that it smoked when cold, so that statement [if true] is a selling point to get my hopes up that the thing at least will start..

 

 Well, it doesn't start because the starter engage [nose] gear is battered enough that it just spins and does not engage the flywheel. I took a starter off another Horse and it spins it over just fine. Even at that, this tractor is still a buy even with the problems it has. For now, I will put it all back together just so no parts get lost and because the transmission and the rest of the tractor needs to be evaluated. I got it pretty clean and it is time for some pictures. I will probably be asking some questions about proper patina because this c series looks pretty well cared for for its age.

 

 I think I stumbled on to a good discussion of how to talk to a machine shop about re-boring the block. Read it if you wish. http://casecoltingersoll.com/showthread.php/17821-How-much-does-it-cost-to-machine-Kohler-singles

Edited July 4, 2017 by ohiofarmer

[c-series don 7,772]

Can you please post some pictures of this tractor? I have many C series tractors but I DONT have a C-141 automatic. That's probably the last tractor I want. I know somewhere out there is an original garage kept totally unmolested C-141 automatic that needs me to show it the love it deserves. One thing I have learned over the years of collecting these great tractors is that patience is a virtue. Good luck with yours Ohiofarmer, whatever route you decide to go with the engine. 

[Dakota8338 115]

Probably already aware of this fact, but the piston will have the diameter stamped in its top.  If not a .030 oversize piston, I would hone the cylinder and crosshatch the wall and put in a new piston and go from there, assuming nothing is excessively worn.  The Kohler k-series engines are a sturdy & durable engine.   

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

  I got a bore measuring tool and locked it in on the wrist pin side of the cylinder. I rotated it around to the thrust side and the biggest gap I could get was about 1/32" . There was a deposit of carbon on the front side of the cylinder that was moving the ring just a bit at the top of the stroke. That might account for a little oil loss. I removed the carbon and the cylinder did not show enough wear from the rings to even catch a fingernail.

  The large engine tin has some issues from a mounting nut and some surrounding metal being gone and a large crack running quite some distance

 The valves were not even close to spec. they had almost no gap at all and now are set according to the manual. Hopefully, I can get it running soon and see what this $200.00 machine will do.

 

 I was not able to read the piston stamping

Edited July 6, 2017 by ohiofarmer

[953 nut 51,536]

2 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

rotated it around to the thrust side and the biggest gap I could get was about 1/32"

1/32", if accurate, is .003" which is the maximum out of round according to Kohler.

[oldredrider 2,547]

1/32"=.03125. Major piston slap at the least! WAY past time to bore to the appropriate size.

You can use your bore gauge to determine where cylinder is now.

[953 nut 51,536]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

1/32", if accurate, is .003" which is the maximum out of round according to Kohler.

 

55 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

1/32"=.03125. Major piston slap at the least! WAY past time to bore to the appropriate size.

You can use your bore gauge to determine where cylinder is now.

Seem my math was off, way off!         

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

Thanks for the replies.  You guys think I can get by starting the tractor to see if the transmission and lift work OK?   Also want to know who can bore it out in the Dayton, Cincinnati, Columbus area. I am willing to travel that far to get quality work...

 

 That tractor sure is a pretty girl. I can post some piccs when my bandwidth comes back in a couple of days

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

 Here are the piccs  It is pretty difficult to tell, but there is a great deal of shine left to the paint. After sanding the hood down with 600 and 800, I sprayed some Rustoleum 2x clear over it and it bloomed a sort of white translucent color. I sanded that some more and now nearly all the little blems are nice and flat. I tested some lacquer in an inconspicous spot and the results are sort of a pleasing dark cherry red with clarity and depth that celebrates the patina on the top of the hood and seat pan. Pictures do not give it justice

 

I am gonna try the same thing on the raider10 with its quick rattle can touch up by the previous owner. I have a 1057 roller for practice that might proove whether or not i am on the right track with this. Even though this tractor will probably be a re-bore the results will probably be worth the money. The pusher blade might nearly pay for the rebuild

 

 It still needs to run by some means to test the transmission.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ohiofarmer

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

 After chasing some electrical gremlins on the tractor, it starts and runs, but only at a high RPM because of carb problems.  I will put all the parts back on and work on the appearance but just the patina and no repainting. The transmission appears smooth, but it still needs to be tested out by pushing the tractor against a tree or something.

 

 So now we know that the tractor is worth saving and worth spending the money on an engine rebuild.  Thanks for all the great advice

 

 So now the herd is at six...........And the tractor pushes nice and hard spinning both tires

Edited July 15, 2017 by ohiofarmer