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OHRob72

416-8 PTO Issues

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OHRob72

I was out mowing some somewhat tall damp grass today and the PTO on my 416-8 started to disengage by itself. I would set it again only to have it disengage in 5-10 seconds. How is the PTO adjusted to stay engaged? I read another thread about also checking a bushing for damage behind the panel. What was more puzzling was that when I held the PTO lever in the engaged position the PTO would not turn the deck blades fast enough to cut the grass...even the short grass. Any ideas what might be causing the lack of rpm from the PTO? I appreciate the help. Thanks.     

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scotty

Did you try adjusting the trunnion at the pto? My b-80 used to do that until i turned it a few turns.

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OHRob72

i will give it a few turns and see what happens. Thanks.

 

 

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Lee1977

Check the c-clip on the short shaft in front of the bearing on the PTO pulley. It has slipped out of the grove. You will need a new c-clip to fix it. I have also had to replace the short shaft a couple of time in the last 40 years on my C-120.

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OHRob72

I adjusted the trunnion but it continues to disengage so I put it back to where it was originally set. Lee I checked the c-clip and it is still in the groove and in good condition. Now the PTO does not even rotate when I engage it, but it is not seized since I can spin it by hand. All the deck spindles spin freely so they are not binding anything up either. I am stumped.

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doc724

This is a somewhat long reply and an unusual thing to look for...but.  My Kolher Command Pro on a 314-8 was leaking oil at the side cover.  So I paid someone to repair it.  I got it back and never put the deck back on last season.  This year, I prepared to put the deck back on and the first indication of something amiss was that the PTO brake was set to brake on the wrong sheave of the PTO.  So I fixed it, set the gap and off I went.  The first cutting of the season the grass was really long and the mower would bog down.  I took half passes and first gear only and got thru it.  The next two cutting were with a 416H-no problems at all.

 

Friday nite I took the 314 out to cut the grass and I could hear that something was not right.  I could see that the mower spindles were not spinning fast enough and two times, the PTO lever snapped back.  When I observed what was going on, I could see a pretty big gap between the PTO bell and the friction surface.  So I adjusted the trunion.  Not one turn but probably eight which all but eliminated any future adjustments.  This worked for a while, and the PTO lever did not snap back again....but the deck was still not cutting properly.

 

Back to the garage I went, reset everything again and did a "dry run" just sitting on the driveway, cycling the PTO lever on and off a few times.  As I am watching it, I could not believe my eyes, the friction disc was moving!  Aha, the drive pulley must be slipping on the motor shaft.  Back in the garage for disassembly and when I gave the PTO friction disc a tug, the pulley indeed moved.  Root cause was discovered and corrected.  I also observed that the mechanic set the pulley position on the motor shaft so the motor shaft extended beyond the PTO sleeve by about 1/8 inch, just like a K series would be.  I did not think that is the way a Command Pro is supposed to be.  After I adjusted the pulley position on the motor shaft to align the tractor drive belt to as "in line" as one can eyeball it, my trunion position on the PTO was where it should be and I have lots of adjustment as the friction disc wears in the future.

 

I re-cut the entire lawn on Saturday morning and no problems at all. (other than I was annoyed)

 

So in addition to everything that previous posters have offered, add "loose motor drive pulley" to the diagnostic journey

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gwest_ca

The Command Pro had a spacer added to prevent movement of the drive pulley.

Garry

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OHRob72

Doc mine has the Magnum engine it in but I will certainly take a look at it if my twins give me a break this afternoon .Thanks for the story and advice.

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farmer

This is just my backwards way of doing things, but I would (making sure the engine is off, key out) engage the deck and try to turn the blades.  If the belts are tensioned correctly you shouldn't been able to do this very easily. If you can, observe where the slippage is occurring and that's where your problem is. Most likely the clutch plate area.  :twocents-twocents:

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doc724
23 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

The Command Pro had a spacer added to prevent movement of the drive pulley.

Garry

Thx Garry.  Mine did not have this spacer added.  Even on the K series though, the pulley does not mount flush to the engine.  Biggest difference is that on Command Pro, the two set screws are at 90 and 180 degrees to the key.  On K series set screws at at 0 and 90 degrees to the key (meaning one setscrew is on the key), There must be a reason, however every WH  pulley I have seen has a set screw directly over the key

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OHRob72

Well being exhausted from taking care of twin infants sure makes you overlook the simplest things. I went out to take another look at the PTO and noticed that the top of the curved rod would pop out of the plate when I engaged the PTO(engine was off). The engine mounting plate was also at about a 15 degree angle from horizontal. It turns out that the forward most bolt on the engine mounting plate had backed out or was missing.  I placed the mounting plate horizontal and engaged the PTO and everything seems to work as it should now. I will be getting a new bolt tomorrow. Thanks everyone for your input. :beer: 

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