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6bg6ga

My Rules For Simple Troubleshooting

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6bg6ga

I guess I tend to differ from some here with respect to troubleshooting.  I will start a simple list that others may want to add to.

 

1.) Buy a halfway decent meter

2.) Never depend on a factory schematic to do your thinking for you.

3.) Always consider the possibility that some idiot has caused problems by trying to re-invent the wheel

4.) Never try to group run problems necessarily by a specific model or engine

5.) Be willing to step back and listen

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953 nut

6.) With any electrical problem the first step is to clean and tighten ALL connections including grounds

7.) When a problem pops up take a look at the last thing you or your buddy worked on, be sure it was completed.

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6bg6ga

Excellent 953 nut !!!

 

One should also insert the word "SAFETY" 

 

8.) Safety in working with both electrical and mechanical systems.

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6bg6ga

9.)  There is no stupid question. Don't be afraid to ask it.

 

There are many stages of help here on this forum from what I have seen so far and they vary from mild to wild.

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ohiofarmer

Consider purchasing a cheap timing light for use as a spark checker. It is easy to see if you have occasional misses or weak spark events in real time--even if the engine sounds like it is running OK.  If you can quickly isolate the problem between fuel,spark, compression, and [to a lesser extent] air, you are very far ahead of mechanics who jump from one thing to another.  Also, do yourself a favor and have a strong charged battery hooked up to your machine. If you have a volt meter, your battery should read 12.6 volts or a little more to be considered in top shape. A battery reading 12.4 is on its way out, and one reading 12.2 or below may be the source of some electrical problems. The battery may actually start the engine and is then so depleted the engine will not run correctly. 

 

  If you suspect you have a short in your wiring, get a ACT fuse holder and a cheap box of fuses from Harbor Freight. Use the smallest 5 amp fuse on your supply wire for testing purposes.  You cannot put back the magic smoke once you let it out...I had a briggs come in with completely fried kill wires and toasted coils when someone wired a solenoid backwards.  In a panic as the wires were burning, they cut one of the battery cables. I first figured the fuse method out when we had a motorcycle with a suspected wiring short and the fuse method worked well as we tested one wire at a time with it. Lots and lots of wires are bundled in a motorcycle wiring harness and you do not want one wire to burn the insulation from the others. I use car batteries in the shop sometimes to energize lawn mowers or motorcycles. The VOLTS will not hurt your mower, but using a fused jumper cable of perhaps 20 amps or even less will still start your  small engine. I never jump a small battery with a large one, instead hooking the battery directly to the engine cables

 

 Use a quality penetrating oil BEFORE tearing something apart. A few days before with repeat applications of the oil can turn misery into productive time..probably the easiest to obtain 'best' grade penetrant is Freeze-Off  http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/CRC2/05002/N1737.oap?ck=Search_penetrating+oil_-1_1966&keyword=penetrating+oil&showStores=true#availabilityTab_

 Oreilles used to stock it, but you can order it and have it in two days. I use my $5 rewards card for it every time I get one in the mail. There are some slightly better penetrants around, but if you pre-treat your machine, i doubt that you would ever see the difference. I ignore the product wasting directions on the Freeze-Off  can BTW. the best stuff I ever used might be this stuff, but you have to know a dealer to get it  http://www.ebay.com/itm/BG-In-Force-Ion-Activated-Penetrating-Oil-15-75oz-Can-From-the-makers-of-bg44k-/280985596533

 

 

Edited by ohiofarmer
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Tim.0

reassembly of certain items I use anti seize compound, start at the simplest part of the problem, sometimes the most obvious is missed.

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pfrederi
12 minutes ago, Adams94 said:

 

Great tool to start trouble shooting...same thing about $5.00 at Harbor Freight if you have access to one.

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Tim.0

guess one day ill get one of those testers they look nice have to admit never looked for them before,  I still do the old way of grounding the spark plug or spark plug wire and look for the white blue arc. Something I learned years ago for intermittent miss is to spray a mist of water over the  spark wires and plugs and look for arcing.. The other way I used a week ago was to use the spark plug wire puller and pull the wires from the plugs one at a time.

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DennisThornton
12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

6.) With any electrical problem the first step is to clean and tighten ALL connections including grounds

7.) When a problem pops up take a look at the last thing you or your buddy worked on, be sure it was completed.

I can't tell you how many bewildering electrical problems I've experience or how many hours I've fought them only to find a bad ground!

 

Guess I'm a slow learner...

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6bg6ga
9 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

I can't tell you how many bewildering electrical problems I've experience or how many hours I've fought them only to find a bad ground!

 

Guess I'm a slow learner...

 

No, not a slow learner. Common misconception by anyone is to over think the problem.  The solution to a lot of  problems is usually the  simplest  and most overlooked.

Edited by 6bg6ga

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DennisThornton
6 minutes ago, 6bg6ga said:

 

No, not a slow learner. Common misconception by anyone is to over think the problem.  The solution to a lot of  problems is usually the  simplest  and most overlooked.

Oh for sure.  

Point is to assume little and confirm a lot before you start to diagnose.  

Cheat!  Look for the obvious first!

It's so easy for a required ground or any connection to work loose on a ground pounding, thumping, vibrating hunk of equipment that worked just fine a minute ago and now want do anything!  Baffling!  And then you find the spark plug wire fell off the plug, or off the coil, the coil wire is loose, the battery cable is loose, the main ground is loose, the darned fuse connector is faulty, key switch has failed and on!  So many connections and if one fails she dies...  Or maybe worse, she dies and comes back, and dies and comes back, or dies and...

 

Seriously.  My C-81 ran fine and died.  Total!  Complete!  Wouldn't crank, start or anything!  Fuse!  Nope fuse was good.  OK, cheat!  Nope.  All the low hanging fruit was picked.  Nothing obvious, yet it had to be something stupid.  Fuse?  Nope, still good.  What the heck?  Bad fuse connector!  I don't know what happened.  Heat?  Deformed over the years.  Don't know, but power to the connector was not passing through a good fuse.  New connector and life was good!

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mmmmmdonuts

10) Always disconnect the battery when rewiring circuits or working on the tractor. At a minimum tape up any positive voltages so you don't accidentally short anything to the tractor.

 

11) When connecting the battery to the tractor connect the positive lead first and then the negative. When disconnecting the battery disconnect the negative first and then disconnect the positive. 

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pfrederi
1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

I can't tell you how many bewildering electrical problems I've experience or how many hours I've fought them only to find a bad ground!

 

Guess I'm a slow learner...

"You can trust your Mother you can't trust your ground"  Copied from another hobby board :P

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ohiofarmer

I thought about this thread last night after I got two miles away and the bike started running really rough. It limped home at about 30 miles an hour Simple things first included taking off the tank to for better access to the plug wires. I figured I might as well pull the fuel filter and test the beast with a little test tank

 

   Boom!  She purred like a kitten. New fuel filter is gonna happen

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6bg6ga

12.) Exercise caution if using any solvents around battery voltage. Also, proper safety rules must be in place and observed. Solvents and sparks/ open flames result in problems.

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redone

Thanks to all for your expertise on these oldies. I don't understand either, but one day they start, next day dead. Got figure. 

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Dakota8338
On 5/8/2017 at 7:21 PM, mmmmmdonuts said:

10) Always disconnect the battery when rewiring circuits or working on the tractor. At a minimum tape up any positive voltages so you don't accidentally short anything to the tractor.

 

11) When connecting the battery to the tractor connect the positive lead first and then the negative. When disconnecting the battery disconnect the negative first and then disconnect the positive. 

Heat shrink seal tubing is better than tape, when & where it can be used.  I try and keep the three most common sizes on hand in a roll where the right length can be cut from the roll.  The rolls are much cheaper in the long run, and so far I have not had any shrink seal go bad in my tool chest.  But for places where the shrink seal can not be used, certainly used the liquid electrical sealer and/or roll electrical tape to seal the wires inside.

In addition to the typical ohm/volt meters and test lights, I also have in my arsenal a K-D # 2524 Short Circuit Detector.  They do not substitute or replace one another, rather they compliment each other.

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