Jump to content
ztnoo

GT 14 Hydraulic Control Valve Problem: Advice Needed

Recommended Posts

ztnoo

Not sure this is in the right category, but here goes anyway.

 

I have a hydraulic fluid leak problem which originally WAS NOT particularly noticeable or troublesome.
Now is would be better described as a HEMORRHAGE.

Some of you may remember me doing battle a year ago last winter with the rear hubs on my GT 14 to originally correct an issue with one which had slid inward on the left axle.
In the course of that adventure, it was mentioned to me that might be an excellent time to replace my 47 year old axle seals.
They were leaking somewhat, but were not what I would describe as an emergency or huge fluid loss problem.
I decided since it was the middle of winter and I was messing with the hubs, the suggestion made perfect sense to do some preventative maintenance at a leisurely pace given the time of year.
So I was able to complete my horrific hub removal/woodruff key battle, but managed do the axle seal installation without major drama.
I had completely drained the tranny prior to axle seal removal and upon installing the new seals and a new tranny filter, filled with fresh Type A tranny fluid.

During the middle of the mowing season last summer, I began to note my hydro ground speed response was a bit sluggish and slow.
After checking the fluid level in the tranny, I noted it was low.
The system is a 4 quart system and it required over a quart to bring the fluid up to proper level.
I checked around a different locations of the hydraulic system for some obvious telltale signs of loss.
The new axle seals looked great, no loss there. The hydraulic cylinder looked OK from what I could tell after hosing the area down and running it again after cleaning. Didn't appear to be any significant or apparently loss there.
The hoses looked OK with no cracking or splitting, and their fittings seemed to be leak proof.
However after running the tractor for a while in a stationary position and using the control valve which lifts and lowers the mower deck, I could detect leakage out of the top of the valve. The leakage was only coming from the top of the control valve in the area immediately below the valve lever itself.
My assumption is since I replaced the axle seals and stopped any fluid leakage in those two locations, potential leakage problems in the hydro system have migrated to the next weakest point.........in this case the control valve (#8363).

Unfortunately, I did not attend to this problem last winter as I should have (DUH!), being aware of the problem.......which of course continued the remainder of the last mowing season.
So..........guess what? The problem for some reason has not resolved itself without my engagement over the winter. And now its mowing season.......and in the two mowing sessions I've done since getting my mule drive problem and deck gauge wheel axle support problems resolved after running over a 3/4" steel form stake, the leaking/hemorrhaging control valve seal is only getting worse. I once again added over a quart of Type A fluid before my first mowing this year to bring the fluid to proper operating level.
I know it needs fixed meaning new internal seals need to be installed. The problem is how to get to the control valve to remove it or manipulate it in some fashion to install the seals on the spool valve and get it reinstalled in the control valve body without tearing the tractor half way apart.

Lots of older WH tractors have the hydraulic control valve on the outside of the hood stand or some side area of the tractor generally on the left just forward of the the seating position and under the dash area, which would make servicing the spool valve a relatively simple procedure.
Not so with the GT 14.
The control valve is located between two tall, heavy gauge "C" shaped steel panels which sit on top of the frame rails.The hood stand mounts to these "C" channel members. There is about 5 1/4" of width between the C channels......not a lot of room for a guy with big hands and fingers to operate.

My primary question is can the control valve and its primary operating part, the spool valve which has two seals, be serviced without completely removing the valve body from the tractor???
Is it possible to manipulate the valve after removing the mounting bolts from the right side C channel in such a way to gain access (the spool is removed from the bottom side of the valve body by removing a snap ring), either from the top or the bottom of the tractor to successfully remove the spool valve from the valve body, replace the seals, and reinstall the spool valve in the body of the valve without removing all the hoses and completely removing the valve from the tractor?
Without the tractor running, will there still be residual hydraulic pressure in the lines and in the system in general which would cause fluid to spurt out once a component is removed.........a hose or the spool valve itself for instance?

The control valve is WH part # 8363 and I see that Lowell Scholljegerdes (wheelhorseman1000) has a seal kit for resolving this leakage problem with "Control valve seals #7788". The seals are very reasonably priced and readily available and will undoubtedly fix the tremendous leakage at the top of my control valve.
https://www.wheelhorseman1000.com/product-p/00123.htm
The problem is what all is involved to get to the valve for the repair and how long something like this might actually take to get the tractor back in service?
One of my big concerns is the hoses which are now 48 years old. They show no signs of leakage now, but I fear if I start manipulating and moving them around too much messing around with the control valve, I'll create a whole new dilemma.


The big problem is its right in the critical time of year for mowing season here in Indiana, and with the mass quantities of rain we have had the last week or so, once it turns 75 or 80 or more, I'm going to need to mow twice a week just to keep up. Since my GT 14 is my only tractor and my prime tool for mowing, I just can't afford to have it down for a prolonged period this time of year.
If there's not a decently quick and reasonably simple removal procedure someone can suggest, I may just have to continue to keep the fluid level up in the tranny and control the mess of the leakage around the top of the valve as best I can until a drier time of year when mowing isn't a pressing twice a week issue. I might even have to just grin and bear it and keep adding fluid until mowing season is over in the fall. That assumes of course the hemorrhaging doesn't get disastrously worse than it already is.

I'm anticipating once this particular leakage issue gets resolved, the next weakest spot in the hydro system will show up, but first things first.

Any suggestions or words of wisdom anyone has to offer about this repair, I am completely open to listening.

Thanks,
Steve

p.s.  I've attached a few pics below of the control valve and the affected area which is leaking for your reference.
 

IMG_0807a.thumb.jpg.eb5ebd914602154051c72118c4208fc6.jpg

 

leakage area circled

590c79d823b30_IMG_0806aoutline.thumb.jpg.8ad5caea3faa461debd249ef464d7c27.jpg

 

leakage area circled

590c79e16536a_IMG_0808aoutline.thumb.jpg.8a8f7c1ab891d918b33774a68f964c3a.jpg

 

***  Updated Addendum: June 1, 2017

See my last post dated June 1 on page 2 of this thread.

Edited by ztnoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman

Here are the Wheelhorse instructions, they also are posted in the ad on my website in the pictures

IMG_4252.JPG

IMG_4253.JPG

Edited by wheelhorseman1000
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Thanks for your response Lowell.

I read your instruction prior to ordering the kit and once one gets the valve in a position to actually remove the spool, they are very clear.

And that appears to be straightforward and simple procedure.

 

My problem is more about the mechanics and logistics of what to do to actually get to the point of removing the spool valve and replacing the seals.

I think its gonna take some guys with some GT 14 experience with this procedure to guide me through the forest.

With the control valve attached in the interior of the frame, its whole different ball game than dealing with a control valve on the outside of the frame/body of a tractor.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman

 Sorry I cannot help you there I do not own a GT-14 but I'm sure others will chime in with some excellent information, as for the hoses don't be too afraid of them I do have a set of GT-14 hoses for a pattern  if you choose to purchase from me so I should be able to make you one without any hassle and I also use the correct hydraulic hose - The hose that I use does not have any wire in it just like the original hoses do not -  in my experience with guys sending me hoses to make you'd be amazed at how many hoses that are less than five years old that they had made at the local hydraulic shop that used the now very common wired hose  (that is stiff)  puts added pressure on the #5 swivel o-ring ends and then they start leaking.

Edited by wheelhorseman1000
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
KC9KAS

@ztnoo I have removed my GT-14 hydraulic control valve several times, and in fact, I have 2 valves in the tunnel...one mounted on the right side channel, and one on the left side channel.

They are a real bear to remove, but it can be done with time and patients.

My valves each have a slotted screw that holds the spool in place. After the up/down lever is removed and the screw on the bottom removed (with a washer and a small spring) the spool will slide up and out while the valve is still mounted in the tractor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

KC9KAS,

What about residual pressure in the system when removing that spool valve?

Is the any, or a least a minimal amount?

If I understand you correctly then, the valve body DOES NOT have to be removed to get the spool valve removed from the casting.

I assume you work from underneath the tractor when doing this, with the mower deck removed, and perhaps the tractor raised on floor stands???

Just trying to add some clarity to all the procedures you are using to achieve this seal replacement......

Steve

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Lowell,

Aldon provided me with some pics of what we believe to be a 8363 control valve from one of his GT 14s, but for the life of me I don't understand where the location of the snap ring is that supposedly holds the spool valve in the valve body casting.

Could you please point out from his pics where this snap ring is located?

Thanks,

Steve

 

IMG_0681.JPG

 

IMG_0682.JPG       IMG_0683.JPG

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman

The 8363 does not have a snap ring as far as I know however the 6621 does - here is a picture...

IMG_4822.JPG

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

These are pics of a 6629 from a Charger /Elecrtro.  There is a snap ring on the end in second pic.

 

The WH Lift Valve Cylinder Repair manual doesn't cover these older units.

 

The pics above look like there is slot head screw and washer instead of a snap ring...but I don't see how that would work....

 

IMG_0075.JPG

IMG_0076.JPG

Edited by pfrederi
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman
10 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

These are pics of a 6629 from a Charger /Elecrtro.  There is a snap ring on the end in second pic.

 

The WH Lift Valve Cylinder Repair manual doesn't cover these older units.

 

The pics above look like there is slot head screw and washer instead of a snap ring...but I don't see how that would work....

 

IMG_0075.JPG

IMG_0076.JPG

The 8363 uses the screw because it has a (float or detent) position - notice the Allen head screw that is where the spring and ball for the detent is - notice the 6629 is not drilled and tapped.

IMG_4823.JPG

Edited by wheelhorseman1000
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Lowell et al.,

 

I received the seal kit from Lowell yesterday afternoon and started to attempt to get to the control valve on my GT 14.

Continued this morning.

I'll document all the details with pics later, but did mange to get to the valve, get it detached from the tractor, removed all hydraulic hoses and worked on the control valve on the bench.

Managed to get the spool valve out, get the old seals removed, delicately installed the new seals, and reinstalled the spool in the valve.

Got everything back in the tractor and hooked up, checked hydraulic fluid level, and started the tractor.

The Good News is the valve no longer leaks. Yeah!

The Bad News is the valve doesn't seem to have the range of motion it did before (and has always had), and it doesn't operate the cylinder. Boo!!! The cylinder literally does nothing and the control valve has no impact on it.
 

What's going on?

Does the system need to be bled while running?

Got an air lock in it???

I"m baffled.

Need the hydraulic experts input here.

Edited by ztnoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Aldon

Thanks for being the test subject and for this documentary thread.

 

I need to do same to a couple of mine so this will be helpful to at least me. 

 

Not able to help with with your latest question but will post the pics I sent you so anyone reading this thread at later point has reference...

 

Inside and outside pictures of the c channel upright that the valve attaches internally to. Note the two holes at slight diagonal.

IMG_0690.thumb.JPG.9789914313c6e0c430ee46ba130b7f52.JPGIMG_0691.thumb.JPG.406d19970b72ec045a786e311a24ec5f.JPG

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Lowell et al.,

 

I took the tractor for a drive down the public sidewalk on my street in front my house, and the hydraulic drive function of the rear end hydro works fine. Goes like hell.

This is valve related issue.....pretty sure.

Something tells me this has something to do with the spring loaded/ball stop mechanism in the bottom of the control valve.

Probably user/mechanic/owner issue not full understanding the nuances of seal replacement on a WH part # 8363 control valve.

Guess I'm a guinea pig here.

C'est la vie.

This makes me understand and  appreciate the "BIG L & G tractor" stance of the 1-7441, 1969 GT 14.......even more.

Hopefully I'll get things right and working again.........and others will learn.

Every class has a Professor........

rotfl.gif.f307b26e271f18b2ed121a3cfc9af1ce.gif

Edited by ztnoo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Pretty sure the problem is somewhere in the relationship of these assemblies......

 

59139b0a6dae4_IMG_1041a.jpg.6bd45921bd6bb749ac3c3bcd28c2856a.jpg

Edited by ztnoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman
1 hour ago, ztnoo said:

Pretty sure the problem is somewhere in the relationship of these assemblies......

 

59139b0a6dae4_IMG_1041a.jpg.6bd45921bd6bb749ac3c3bcd28c2856a.jpg

Have you tried to operate with the detent spring and ball removed? And also there is another piece that the detent ball rides in that the screw holds on correct?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

When I very careful took everything apart on a clean, open bench surface with good lighting, these are the parts that came out.

I did not note anything else that came out of the spool and the control valve body.

Of course, I've never run across any pics or even a diagram of what should be in this area of a 8363 valve, so this is a fresh learning experience for me.

Seems like its a learning experience for everyone here too, because I haven't had many replies to questions about these 8363 control valves because few seem have had past experience with them.

If they are only installed in GT 14 tractors, that may go a long way to understanding why there's not a huge pool of knowledge out there about the intricacies of this valve.

 

The short answer to "Have you tried to operate with the detent spring and ball removed? " is no.

Getting the valve removed from inside the GT 14 C channel body part isn't a quick or particularly easy job which can be turned around in five or ten minutes.

My theory is the allen screw, little spring, and ball detent came out with my initial disassembly.

I've never had the the valve out in the previous 36 years I've owned the tractor and I saw no evidence it have been out previously.

I have to assume since it was in the assembly, it has a function......as was originally intended from the factory when it was manufactured 48 years ago.

I honestly see no logical reason to attempt to remove those three parts and retry the valve minus those parts.

 

Upon reviewing some pics I have received from Aldon and Chaplain Manny, I'm pretty well convinced the operation of this valve has something to do with where the head of the round screw is in relation to the end of the casting.

It appears the head should be just slightly protruding from the casting.

Additionally, the allen set screw securing the ball detent and small spring has its head basically flat or marginally inside the casting.

Manny:

2.thumb.jpg.70adc6f6981589bc3871b3a995d202a3.jpg  5.thumb.jpg.4152e2bdda76fbe48473cad682dc46d2.jpg

 

Aldon:

5914512531be4_Aldon1.JPG.5261a30665a7fdf4f848542a83bad6cd.JPG

5914513014742_Aldon2.JPG.6cc149e836ab2a21228edf23ba27b184.JPG   5914513ab1e3f_Aldon3.JPG.2f210d02061682b4c266e2cec1754973.JPG

 

My pics during tear down:

591451b11387a_IMG_1037a.jpg.913d4f00f7f953ad67427e985e653ce2.jpg

591451bf11951_IMG_1038a.jpg.7348ba91e0b9254ec1dd52f773b0b752.jpg

591451c4e4078_IMG_1039a.jpg.5ad401a6f991d77e2e35835264333bfa.jpg

 

Since its raining this morning, I'm going to pull the control valve off the tractor for another look at this area of the control valve and the relationships of the round head screw and the allen set screw to the cast body of the valve.

As I recall, thinking back to what I did, I think my round head screw went into the casting farther and the allen screw was likewise inside the casting quite a bit more than these three sets of pics indicated where it typically should be. It may wind up simply being user error as it relates to reassembly............and of course not full understanding the relation of all these parts to each other and the function of each in allowing the valve to work properly.

I will report my findings and conclusions later.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Well, took the control valve off the tractor again this morning and have been trying to understand how it functions and what needs to happen in both directions for it to both extend and retract the cylinder to be able to lower and raise the mower deck.

I could plainly see the spool was moving very little in either direction with the control lever attached to the machined yoke of the top of the spool.

It would go down a little bit, but pushing the lever up made no difference in the the valving looking in the ports.

The spool needs to move enough in both directions to change the flow and thus the direction the cylinder (in this case to lift or lower the mower deck).

It appears each port (up & down) are not completely covered when operated, but force more fluid flow in the other direction which activates the cylinder accordingly.

 

Lowell, you might be right that something is missing.

I thought I took great care and was patient and attempted to be observant when removing those parts, which seemed to be required to actually get the spool out of the valve body.

There are built in stops to limit travel in either direction. I simply am unable to identify them with the parts I noted upon removal. I am unsure what limits movement in either an up or down direction other than the ball detent plays a role in this operation..

 

In all the pics I posted in the thread above, the round head screw appears to be resting on something that appears to be a washer or washerlike which is slightly smaller than the bore in the bottom of the casting.

I have no such part in my inventory from the tear down.

I speculate it serves and works as not only a downward limit with the detent ball, but also serves in some way as a limit in upward travel of the spool.

I am led to believe something is missing because the round headed screw will not fully seat, and leaves approximately 1/8-3/32" between its flat bottom side and the end of the spool.

Something has to fill that void, but I have no idea what it is.

 

Messing with stuff like this is a bit like doing delicate surgery.

I feel like a first year med school flunky.........nice stitching job......no bleeding, but the organ repaired doesn't function.

facepalm.gif.18c6a61e65b85f40a8b73a64c9ed5502.gif

 

5914d43076808_IMG_1042a.thumb.jpg.9e378529dfdb81da248bc4f9c8488e3e.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wheelhorseman

 I know that @Shynonhas one apart maybe he can take a few pictures?

Edited by wheelhorseman1000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

That would be SUPER!!!

Two or three minds are always better than one, especially in uncharted territory.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Lowell, I have PM'd Shynon, but it appears he doesn't check his messages very often.

Since you both live in the same town, could you please give him a bump about checking his messages?.

If he would, I think he might be able to add some insight to my 8363 control valve problems.

Thanks,

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
gwest_ca

Just making sure you have this manual

Garry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Shynon

These are two I have apart. Notice the spool is different as is the casting

20170513_102605.jpg

20170513_102630.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Shynon,

Thanks for the pics. They are informative.

What is curious about all this is my valve which has been on my GT 14 for 36 years since I got it, looks like your top casting with the exception it has a small diameter hole bored and threaded in the flat faced circular part of the casting into which a small allen set screw goes. See yellow circled area in your edited pic.
I'm not absolutely sure, but is this first valve of yours a 6621 valve? Was the spool in this valve secured with a snap ring at the bottom?
Also, my valve has the same mounting holes as that control valve, one above the other separated by......2 1/2 " or so. Didn't measure that. See holes circled in blue in your edited pic.
Additionally, my valve has a spool that is just like the spool displayed with your lower valve casting.
That second valve has a wider, flat area on the top of the casting whereas the other valve (and mine) don't have. Those have around tops.
Also, that lower valve is mounted differently in a diagonal pattern across the casting body. See holes circled in blue in your edited pic. The mounting bracket is L shaped with a very long leg to allow mounting.
My valve, and I assume your top valve, are mounted with a piece of 3/4" x 3/4" angle bracket.

I'm wondering what the bottom of the spool in the lower valve look like? Is the bottom bored and tapped to accept a machine screw? What secures the spool so it doesn't come out the top? Is it the mystery part circled in red with a screw running through it?
Mine has a machine screw about one inch long.
When I disassembled my valve I didn't note a part like yours (circled in red in your edited pic).
I think I lost or didn't see it come out when I removed the screw which had to be removed to pull the spool out of the casting body.
I believe your part has a detent in it near the bottom edge and is a specific height (or length) to limit the spool raising itself in the valve body when levered upward.
The large spring in the casting slot allows the lowering the spool to a certain limit and then returns it to a neutral position when the lever is released. Something in these other parts limits upward spool movement and returns it to a neutral position when the lever is released. I'm pretty sure its the part circled in red in your edited pic. Could you tell me the diameter and the length of that part, and tell me what it is made of (steel, brass, aluminum, something else?).
I assume it has a hole though the length of it. Is that correct???

Shynon's edited pic:

59187d870b691_1a.jpg.d37a84f04b0ceec0adb434c85baf227a.jpg

 

I'm puzzled by these exterior physical differences, but they real don't mean too much. They were probably slight design changes instituted during production runs.
What is really important to understand is how the internal parts (mostly to limit the spool up and down movement) are arranged and interact with each other.

These control valves no matter their design, are fairly simple devices. They simply divert fluid from one port to another to affect a mechanical change or movement.
Really the only thing to go wrong with these sort of simple valves are the seals themselves. That's really the only reason to take them apart which is to replace the seals, because they have reached their practical service life and are permitting unacceptable amounts of hydraulic fluid to pass around them and show up as external leaks. Not unlike having leaking axle seals.
It took 47 years for mine to start to go south. That's pretty outstanding service life, IMO. Maybe that's why there's been relatively little response to my inquiries about these valves.........they simply don't fail often enough for many to tear into them to replace the seals. Thus not many, even very long time and experienced WH aficionados, are familiar with the parts and the order of disassembly and assembly.
I'm a little shocked by this seeming lack of a body of knowledge and discussion about this topic here, but now I think I understand why after reflecting a bit more. Lots of guys may just buy another used control valve at a show or swap meet or online if they begin to have trouble with theirs leaking.
I hoping collectively however that this mystery can be solved. I would like to get my valve working again to lift and raise the mower deck.

The manufacturer's name and casting number on the back (mounting side) of my control valve are as follows:
FAWICK
400 076  1

 

Here's few more shots of what I have and what my control valve looks like.
Note the small size of the seals and snap ring relative to the envelope stamp and the pencil. My 8636 valve does not use the supplied snap ring (Lowell states that is for the 6621 valve).

59187e7730f0c_IMG_1024a.jpg.a48b0b06e204f23481c825856e3cd172.jpg

 

Note small allen set screw and the round headed screw attached to the bottom of the spool.

59187ec965d3b_IMG_1039a.jpg.a03cff4e55ca6dd1e535e0f72dc6265c.jpg

 

Note the round head screw and the part underneath it inside the white circle with arrow (which I seem to be missing and believe to be the part circled in red in Shynon's edited pic).

59187f1a4b10e_IMG_1038aoutline.jpg.bf5157b94ea3e6afc6839367c02d3a68.jpg

 

My control valve with the spool partially removed.

59187f67195d5_IMG_1040a.jpg.83b8e5742e3e74d09b7ad453a6235d58.jpg

 

My existing and accounted for parts.
59187f9d2044a_IMG_1041a.jpg.80fcbb6f2c64c96438482a204bed0904.jpg

 

The small allen set screw (with the spring and detent ball which go behind it).

59187fdbe38bb_IMG_1051a.jpg.c3891ce25f095dd41a3ef7319907d60b.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ztnoo

Bump.

Can anyone be of help with this???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Molon_Labe

Any luck yet Steve? I do believe you found your problem, the part circled in red above that you are missing. I looked at that part enlarged and it is indeed grooved for the detent ball. With that in place, the shuttle would have the correct amount of travel in both directions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • ztnoo
      By ztnoo
      I've been looking for a replacement small General Motors pickup from roughly 25 years ago in reasonable shape for 4-5 months.
      After reviewing untold numbers of CL listings during the period, I ran across what looked to be a reasonable mileage example in good aesthetic shape within a reasonable driving distance from my location.
      It was listed on CL in Louisville. Not exactly the next county over (a three hour one way drive), but a good enough prospect, I decided to take a day road trip
      3hr 2min, 187 miles, per Mapquest.
       
      I was thinking.......OK Steve, you are wanting to drive to Louisville to look at a vehicle, so what if I couldn't find anyone (a local friend/neighbor) available on Saturday to go with me?
      Three strikes and I was out. Bingo. Reality sets in.
      My theory was, if it was something I really decided I wanted, I needed to get it out of Louisville THAT day. But with no drafted co-driver, I had a definite problem.
      In a eureka moment, I remembered Chaplain Manny, who I had never met, but with whom I have conversed extensively, not only here at RS, but on various WH FB sites, and by email as well.
      Manny was raised in Louisville, so I instinctively knew he would be an excellent guide and pathfinder in a metropolis I had no familiarity with, other than passing through on I-65 to go to Florida.
       
      So, I messaged Manny on Friday with my situation and proposal and asked if he would be available to assist me for a few hours on Saturday. He now lives east of Jeffersonville (across the river from Louisville, in Indiana) in a very small rural town.
      He replied and told me he was available to help me, given his wife and young son were away at a wedding he wasn't attending.
      I explained the situation generally, and to my amazement and luck, Manny agreed to help me go into Louisville on my long bed S-15 quest.
      I arrived a little after 9 am at Manny's residence (following a three hour drive) and Manny proceeded to guide me into the bowels of Louisville.
      Traffic was horrific for some reason on Saturday morning on both southbound bridges over the Ohio River into downtown Louisville. Manny speculated there had to be some big event going on downtown that morning, but we never did learn what it might be. I would have definitely lost my cool sitting and waiting for traffic to start moving and the stress of trying to navigate the unfamiliar interior of a major urban jungle. But Manny took it all in stride and we eventually maneuvered around the bottlenecks and we got to the desired address in an area of town known as Germantown.
       
      So the short of it is, I bought the truck because it was in excellent shape for a 1990 model with reasonable mileage given its age, and Manny drove the station wagon while I followed in the S15 and we went back north across across the bridge over the Ohio River leading the way back to his place east of Jeffersonville. Generally speaking, the theory "move your feet, lose your seat" applies to CL items, because they can move very quickly and you usually have to have your ducks lined up and be ready to act promptly, or there's a high risk of losing your chance. With Manny's help and assistance, I was able to achieve my goal.
      Manny let me park the truck at his house until I can draft a friend into a day road trip to go retrieve my little S15 jewel later this week. When we got back to his place and he showed me his Wheel Horse collection and ongoing projects and we philosophized about life a bit before I left.
       
      Manny is a great caring and helpful person with a warm and outgoing soul. He has considerable health issues for a male of 56 years of age, but he does his best not to allow that to distract his quality of life and daily routine. I now consider him to be a friend and buddy and not just a correspondent........having met through our mutual interest in Wheel Horses, GT 14s in particular.

       
      Steve
      ___________________________
      Manny & me.

       
      Manny in front of my purchase.

       
      My "new" S15.

       
       
    • ztnoo
      By ztnoo
      I've discovered the main engine pulley driving the hydro pump seems to be a bit loose.
      I need to pull the clutch and associated pulleys off to have a look at what's going on back there.
      May be just a loosened allen screw mounting the pulley, a bad key, a bad pulley bore, or some combination of all three.
      Is the clutch mounting bolt going into the crankshaft a right hand thread, or a left hand thread?
       
      Anyone have a quick answer?
       
      Steve
    • ztnoo
      By ztnoo
      I have a Kohler K341 on a GT 14 tractor.
      Its always had the typical .....what are they called?........pepper shaker muffler? on the tractor.
      I've had to replace them several times....they seem to just eventually burn up.
      I can honestly say even from day one whenever I installed a new muffler of this type, I really couldn't tell that it really muffled much noise, maybe a little, but very little.
      As usage time goes on, they all got nothing but louder.
      Of course, part of this is the sheer displacement of the motor......35.9 cu. in. = 588 cc. Think of it in terms of a slightly bored out Norton Manx 500 cc thumper with an open megaphone exhaust. Deafening! You don't want to be standing 8 or 10' behind a Manx when it being warmed up and the throttle is being "blipped" to do that, without ear protection.
      These older flat head engines seem to be much louder than the newer OHV engines which are common in lots of equipment now.
       
      I've owned and used this tractor for 35 years now, and I guess I'm beginning to become somewhat of a crotchety old senior, but its becoming annoying to me (the operator), and I in fact had one neighbor that ragged me out over the noise.
      It may be because they have a pool and spend a fair amount of time outside, and the pool is about 10-11 feet from a chain link fence that divides the properties.
      I'm really not that worried about the neighbor nearly as much as I am myself, or should I say my hearing.
      I already have hearing loss from years of firing pneumatic nail guns and listening to compressors and heavy machinery running on job sites.
       
      What are you other K341 owners using and doing to get more muffling accomplished?
      Surely there has to be a more reasonable solution which will allow you to hear yourself think after an hour or hour and a half of operation.
      Is there a viable, positive solution for this problem so my ears and head don't ring for an hour after just mowing my lawn?
       
      Regards,
      Steve
    • ztnoo
      By ztnoo
      As many of you know, I've been in a prolonged battle with the rear hubs, woodruff keys, and oil seals on my 1969 GT 14, Model # 1-7441.
      I'm to the point of installing the new SKF oil seals today as soon as I can round up one more PVC fitting to properly size it to my seals for tap in installation.
      After that, its spin on the new NAPA 1410 hydraulic filter, and then fill with ATF.
       
      When I drained the tranny, I measured and computed the volume of ATF taken.
      It was right at 128 oz. + or - maybe two ounces. The volume spec says 4 qts. (4 qts. = 1 gallon = 128 oz.)
      So I know I was within spec, and wasn't losing large amounts of fluid, although I have a couple of random minor seepage locations on the tractor.......mostly around the control value which raises and lowers the mower deck.
      ATF is always what has been in the tranny, so that's what's going back in.
      My reason for caution regarding what to use specifically is probably more a matter of jargon and my understanding of terminology than anything.
      Of course, since my GT 14 was a first model year tractor, Type A transmission fluid was specified in all the literature.
      Type A is no longer available, but it my understanding is that equates with Dextron II.
       
      But isn't Dextron II now an outdated designation?
      If so, what should I be putting back into this Sundstrand  90-2062 tranny to ensure continued adequate trouble-free lubrication???
      I have more than a little angst over wanting to make sure I used the right product in this transmission.
      The changes in products over the years makes it very confusing for those of us who only occasionally wander in and out of discussions like this and automotive/mechanical related jargon and word usage generally.
       
      So gentlemen, what are your specific recommendations on tranny fluid to use in my Sundstrand, and is there any particular brand any of you favor over another?
      Or is it pretty much the case that ATF is ATF is ATF, the world around?
       
      Looking forward to your suggestions and recommendations.
       
      Regards,
      Steve
    • ztnoo
      By ztnoo
      I thought hub removal was taxing stuff, but its almost kid's play when compared to getting a frozen woodruff key removed from an axle still in a tractor.
      After several days of attempting to remove the stuck woodruff key from one of my GT 14 axles by use of about every means known to me and maybe the whole of mankind, I've opted to attempt splitting the key in place in the axle.
      I'm using a Dremel tool with a thin metal cutting disc and working at collapsing the remnants inward then punching the remains out of the key slot.
      I'll get it done one way or another, but I'm going to have to source a new key and I'm thinking why not just replace both axle keys on the tractor.
      The other one almost fell out upon hub removal, so I am being punished unmercifully on this second axle for unknown reasons.
      My preference is to buy replacement parts locally when I can, but with these whopper woodruff keys I seem to be having some difficultly locating the proper replacements nearby.
       
      They are rather large keys by my standards and brief experience dealing with this stuff.
      I've miked the good key from the second hub removed: 1/4" (W) x .58" (H)  x  2" (L)  on a 2 3/4" diameter, full radius.
       
      Where and from whom are small volumes (2-10) of woodruff keys of this and similar specifications available?
      Who do you gentlemen recommend and order from?
       
      Steve
×
×
  • Create New...