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DanKing

Chronic Engine Flooding Issue? Won't crank (details inside)

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DanKing

Hi,

 

I have a Wheel Horse ride-on mower. 

 

Engine specs:

 

Model: 28N707

 

Type: 0131-01

 

Code: 970425ZE

 

 

Mower Specs:

 

14-38 HXL

 

Model: 71193

 

Serial: 7908242

 

 

For years I've had an issue with getting the thing to crank without an extra boost of battery charge from my charger. I pretty much narrowed that down to gasoline leaking into the engine due to the old carburetor no longer stopping fuel from passing when the thing is off. So I put in a manual cutoff valve into the line that I switch off when I'm not using it. That more-or-less worked for me for a couple years, even though I still had trouble cranking it at times.

 

Now, this year after it sat over the winter, it simply won't crank, no matter how much charge I've got in the battery. It simply turns over once, and then locks up, with just the plug firing off without rotation. Like this: https://sendvid.com/qwjws45m

 

Things I've checked:

 

Plug: replaced with new one I had lying around.

 

Air Filter/Air Box: Washable. Cleaned thoroughly and dried.

 

Fresh new gas in tank.

 

Cleaned/Dried fuel filter.

 

New oil.

 

Inspected/cleaned battery terminals and cables of all corrosion.

 

Inspected/cleaned all electrical connections under the hood, including ground terminals. 

 

Verified starter is working great.

 

Battery is good.

 

 

When I take the plug out and crank it, the thing spins until I run out of battery, no issue It's only when the plug is in that won't, and thus doesn't start running on it's own.

 

When I take the plug out each time, it feels and smells of gasoline, which of course means flooding. But I don't get it. My valve is kept shut off. I left the plug and air box off for days to dry things out before trying to crank it again, yet every time, flooding, just from the valve being on for 10 seconds long enough to get some gas to the carb.

 

Now, I had a look at the carb also, and the valves are all intact and working as they should. Didn't take the thing off because frankly I don't want to break something, because cash is a huge issue and I can't get another one right now. I'm also far from an expert on how this stuff works. I'm not used to carbs.

 

So I'm basically stuck trying to figure this out without waiting until I can replace parts. My grass is sky high and my neighbors have to look at it.

 

When it comes to issues of flooding, what is the best course of action, and what, if anything, needs to be done with this carburetor?

 

 

If/when you need more info, let me know. Thanks a lot for any help/reading.

 

 

 

 

 

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Ed Kennell

I know nothing about these vertical shaft engines, but my guess would be the compression release system has failed.     Hopefully some experts will be here to help.

 

Anyway,  :text-welcomeconfetti:  to the  :rs:Dan.

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rmaynard

I don't think it's the carburetor. How do you know the battery is good? It sounds to me like a classic case of a battery with a bad cell. It has enough power to turn the engine over with no compression, but as soon as the plug is back in, it's not powerful enough. See if it turns over with jumper cables from a known good battery like the one in your car or truck.

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r356c

Welcome to Red Square!

 

A vertical shaft Briggs with a wet plug.

I have a similar engine one a beater MTD I keep around.

The carb on that one leaks so bad it will hydro-lock the piston with gas if the fuel valve is opened for more than 5 seconds before cranking.

My get the woods mowed fix for that one is:

  • 1 Close the fuel valve.
  • 2 Pull the plug.
  • 3 Turn the engine over with the plug out to get the excess gas out of the cylinder.
  • 4 Dry the plug with compressed air.
  • 5 Reinstall the plug.
  • 6 Keep the fuel valve closed and crank the engine. It usually fires from the leftover gas in the cylinder.
  • 7 Open the fuel valve to keep the engine running.

One day I'll get around to rebuilding the carb.

 

If your engine does not turn over after step 6, try jumping the mower battery to a car battery to eliminate a bad mower battery as the cause.

 

Edited by r356c
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KC9KAS

:text-welcomeconfetti: to :rs:

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6bg6ga

My opinion here....

 

You have several problems. First you mentioned that you had to install a fuel shut off valve that you turned off when done mowing. I suspect the needle and seat in the carb are bad and need replaced. I suspect that you have used alcohol impregnated gasoline which is harder than heck on carbs. Secondly..... I suspect the battery is not delivering its full cranking power. Take it to your battery store and simply have them test it. Your not out anything except 15 minutes to take it out of the tractor.

 

I believe that I you change the needle and seat and check the float level your carb problem will be solved. I also believe your battery needs replaced and you need to check your battery connections and make sure they are clean and tight.

 

This will at least make it crank and have the correct amount of gas so you have a fighting chance of it starting and running. From here you can see if there is an ignition problem or not.

 

Someone mentioned the compression release..... I would check this after tackling the fuel problem and checking the mowers battery. 

Edited by 6bg6ga
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6bg6ga

One more thing... If your plug has gotten soaked there is a chance its not going to fire even if you try to dry it so I would have a new one on hand. I generally take a small propane hand held torch and heat up the plug and use it for test purposes and then replace the plug with a new one.

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wildman

I would start by checking your valve adjustments.If not valves could be starter or compression release

 

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953 nut

Check this out;

Carburetor Flooding.docx

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wallfish
18 hours ago, r356c said:

Welcome to Red Square!

 

A vertical shaft Briggs with a wet plug.

I have a similar engine one a beater MTD I keep around.

The carb on that one leaks so bad it will hydro-lock the piston with gas if the fuel valve is opened for more than 5 seconds before cranking.

My get the woods mowed fix for that one is:

  • 1 Close the fuel valve.
  • 2 Pull the plug.
  • 3 Turn the engine over with the plug out to get the excess gas out of the cylinder.
  • 4 Dry the plug with compressed air.
  • 5 Reinstall the plug.
  • 6 Keep the fuel valve closed and crank the engine. It usually fires from the leftover gas in the cylinder.
  • 7 Open the fuel valve to keep the engine running.

One day I'll get around to rebuilding the carb.

 

If your engine does not turn over after step 6, try jumping the mower battery to a car battery to eliminate a bad mower battery as the cause.

 

I'm with r356c  Gas in the oil means the carb float is leaking and it goes through the valves to get there plus fills into the cylinder. One turn of the starter until the compression stroke and it will lock up. Buy a new carb

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DanKing

Hey, thank you fellas for taking the time for the advice, and for the welcome.

 

Happy to report the issue is solved as of rmaynard's advice. Bad battery. I said it was good in OP, because I 'd checked the voltage and it was 12.7, plus it held a charge. Forgot about bad cells. Frankly I forget about bad cells quite often even though it's happened in my car twice. Kinda like fuses, it's usually something simple.

 

I'll note this other stuff for future applicability.

 

Anyway, jumped it off with a car battery and boom, fired right up. So I got myself a new battery and it rumbles more smoothly than I've heard in years. Still has that carb leaking issue, but the cutoff valve should keep that at bay until I get a new carb.

 

That, coupled with all the extra stuff I did trying to fix the problem, means it's in quite good shape at the moment.

 

I think this is one time I'll actually enjoy mowing my yard. Thanks a lot!

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6bg6ga

Sir, you don't need  new carb. You just need a needle and seat and possibly a top carb gasket and I'm 99.9% sure this will end your fuel problem. After that is done ONLY use regular gas without alcohol. The alcohol is hard on the needle and seat and also percolates inside the carb when warm.

Edited by 6bg6ga

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