Jump to content
6bg6ga

B43E Help Wanted

Recommended Posts

6bg6ga

So far a fellow member was able to tell me the year of a Onan B43E that followed me home today. Its in need of some work as it broke a rod. A new rod and piston were in with the parts box. Not wanting to pull it apart tonight I was wondering if anyone knew what year Onan went to an  electronic ignition module over the points setup. This engine according to the serial number is Aug 1985. I have googled to my hearts content but haven't been able to pin point the last year for a points ignition.

 

Any help here would be appreciated. I know I could find out easily by pulling the flywheel but tonight I'm just to tired and I don't really have the room to spread the engine out on the bench. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

I'm trying not to tear this down all the way if possible. I will mention what I see so far. The crank has what looks like melted aluminum pieces on it. I was told by an old small engine mechanic that he used acid to remove the aluminum off cranks before and then went over the cranks with some 600 grit paper. Has anyone tried this?  I see no internal damage in the engine the bore looks good other than some very light surface rust that will probably hone out.

 

The outer metal looks a tan color and underneath it would seem that it might have been green.

 

I am missing the exhaust and I am will to buy if someone has an extra to sell.

 

Pictures to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Picture of B43E  Missing the exhaust manifold. Looks like it might have been green before.

 

yes, I know its sitting next to a Green John Deere 824 with a 10hp engine on it. God forgive me but I've had the green thing about 15 years and bought it dead and repaired it.

P1010001.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Just jumped over to the practical Machinist site and found some interesting info. Don't use acid. Use Sodium Hydroxide, Red Devil Lye, or Easy off oven cleaner and then simply polish after your done cleaning up after the chemical.  I will opt for the Easy Off oven cleaner since I did spill in the oven and can throw a can in the grocery cart without the wife wondering what I was up to.

 

Still need info on the ignition system if possible. Would kinda like to know what it is before I make room on the bench for a tear down.  I will admit here in the forum I don't know why I brought it home. I guess I just wanted it. I guess secretly I'm wanting to find a Horse without an engine and being able to transplant the 16 hp Onan in. God help me I have the bug.  I'm almost ready to part with an AR-15 to fund a Wheel Horse Tractor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Ok, still solo on this thread so I will keep it going in the hope someone might comment.

 

Watched a video that showed removing aluminum from the crank with the crank out of the block. Will attempt to do the same and leave the crank in the block. Have some mule string( pulling flat type wide string used to pull wiring bundles) that I will use with some compound to polish the crank afterwards.

 

Do the B43E's have the mounting pad for a ignition module? If so why not simply slip the crank sensor ring over the crank and mount the sensor to the pad and have electronic ignition? If so why not incorporate the ignition module and a set of points as the backup? Why can't one simply modify the original wiring a tad and have both?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Crude hand drawn schematic. One shows simple point ignition, one shows ignition module and one shows the double throw double throw switch that would allow the use of either system simply by the flip of a switch.

P4160001.JPG

P4160002.JPG

P4160003.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JC 1965

I wish I could help you out but I know nothing about Onan engines.  Sorry !!      :confusion-shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
boomers_influence

6bg6ga

the B 43E NEVER came with the electronic ignition,

the T 260 ( big block ) was first.

the P series started using it in 1986.

many mods are needed to install it,

thank you. boomer ( the used onan engine parts guy, also NOS and new )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga
2 hours ago, boomers_influence said:

6bg6ga

the B 43E NEVER came with the electronic ignition,

the T 260 ( big block ) was first.

the P series started using it in 1986.

many mods are needed to install it,

thank you. boomer ( the used onan engine parts guy, also NOS and new )

 

 

I was pretty sure the B43E never came out with electronic ignition. I was wondering if someone knew if the mounting point was there like the P series. If it is there its a very simple process to convert it. I guess I can simply pull the cover off the B engine I have and pop the flywheel and have a look see. I was told the ring same one used on the P series would fit the B crank. If the mounting point isn't there for the ignition module maybe there is a possibility I can brake a bracket to install a module to. I realize attention would be have to be given to finding out if there was clearance to raise the stator up say .030 for the bracket clearance. Its not that I feel the breaker/points aren't dependable its just that I like the idea of having both on an engine that is already setup with points. As I drew out is a very simple matter to make either work via a quick flip of the switch provided the mounting pad is there and if not its still do able if there is clearance for a bracket. If the space won't allow the usage of the stock Onan module then I'm sure I can come up with a "Hall sensor" and a circuit to provide the same ignition action as  the factory module.

If that won't work I'll make it work with a simple optical sensor.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
onanparts.com

Pop that flywheel off. Odds are very high it does NOT have the mounting holes for the electronic ignition module. If not then you will need to get a later timing cover with the holes in it. I've done what you want to do on several Onan's over the years, add electronic ignition but also keep the points set up for back up. 

 

My conversions used two coils, one for each system. Double redundancy! :) You will need the longer flywheel key, Onan # 515-0284. Trigger ring/rotor # 166-0767, Module # 166-0785 and insulator # 166-0786.. Everything that is shown here:

https://www.onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=737&zenid=32404badf8e93ee072a4522548f0033e

 

Governor arms/shafts are different depending on the particular application. Keep that in mind. Covers and arms are cheap on ebay.

 

This pic is of a timing cover from a 1988 Onan genset that still had points but came with the correct cover for mounting the module. It was an easy conversion! If by some slim chance your cover looks like this one then your conversion just got much easier! Don't hold your breath though.....

 

 

NHE36.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Thanks for the reply. I have everything minus the module and timing chain cover. I'm not going the double redundancy route as I will use the original coil with the switch and circuit I posted that I figure will work. The capacitor on the + side of the coil is only there to smooth the 12VDC running to the coil and will have no effect on the engine running on the points system.

 

Depending on if the original coil is good will effect my decision to go with dual parallel regular automotive type coils. If I keep the primary resistance within the specification listed two standard ignition coils will work fine. One needs to remember that resistance in parallel is going to be lesser so 3.9 paralleled with say another 3.9 ohm coil will yield  a resistance of approximately 1.95 ohms so one would need to simply add a resistor of say 1.5-2.0 ohms in order to satisfy the resistance needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Timing cover coming from ebay. Just need the crankshaft key, timing cover gasket, new crankshaft seal for the cover and ignition module. Found ignition module new on ebay for the 616 zero turn I have.

 

I have some work to do to get the B43E running after it threw a rod via another owner. I need head gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, and a set of short exhaust pipes to get her running.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Timing cover has arrived.  Waiting on flywheel key, Exhaust pipes and ignition module.

 

Need to know several things

First,   Which cylinder is number one?

 

           What spark plugs does a B43E use?  My engine had no plugs.  Downloaded B43 manual no mention of plug number, also no show of which cylinder is number one.

 

         

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
boomers_influence

6bg6ba

the #1 cylinder is the starter side.

the plug to use is champion RS 17 YX.

 

i did not see that you ordered an ignition rotor. ( 166-0767 )

 

ALSO, the back of the flywheel MOST be machined down,

or it will crush the ignition rotor.

 

thank you. boomer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Thank you boomer.

 

Just came in from the garage after looking at the engine and it has a 2 and a one on the crank.  Amazing, I get blinder every day. Yup, got the rotor off the other engine.  I will look at the flywheel for clearance after I get the aluminum off the rod journal. Just gave it a helping of easy off and will wait 4 hours and see if something happens. I will repeat this 3 or 4 times and if it doesn't the crank comes out for serious cleaning and polishing. 

 

Thanks again.

6b

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga
On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, boomers_influence said:

6bg6ba

the #1 cylinder is the starter side.

the plug to use is champion RS 17 YX.

 

i did not see that you ordered an ignition rotor. ( 166-0767 )

 

ALSO, the back of the flywheel MOST be machined down,

or it will crush the ignition rotor.

 

thank you. boomer

 

 

You have me wondering now. I looked at the newer cover I purchased and I remembered several weekends ago when I tore the top off my P216V pulled the flywheel, stator and replaced the ignition module. The module sits below the stator so why do I need to machine the flywheel on the B43E? It would appear the height of the stator supports is the same and thus there would be no way the ignition module is going to hit the flywheel or a need to machine the flywheel because the module is below the stator. Is there something I'm missing?

Another note.... couldn't keep from laughing today when I saw the module bolts on ebay for $7.00  Couldn't help but wonder if they had been blessed by the pope or they were nickel plated. Note...Anyone needing these bolts they are 10-32X 3/8" hex head and less than .50 at your hardware store.

 

On another thread there was a question about the insulator under the ignition module. The insulator isn't to insulate against voltage/continuity  its a thermal insulator. 

Edited by 6bg6ga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Picture of the rod journal that was caked with aluminum. I still need to go over it a bit more and polish it up a bit. I'm on my way to getting it ready to go back together.

Its amazing that using some flat mule string with a little very fine abrasive can clean it up. I realize that I should have pulled the crank out of the engine to do the work but I had to see if I could save it without taking the crank out. Actually someone took the engine apart without cleaning it up at all and I didn't want to tear it all the way down buy all the gaskets, seals and bearings and possibly end up with an engine that should have been junked.

 

 

 

Little side note here.... I sprayed oven cleaner on the rod journal and let it set and I did this about 4 times. It took most of the aluminum off the journal. Next time if this happens I will revert to using Louis Lye with rubber safety gloves as that would be a lot faster.

P4230005.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Anyone recommend a reasonably price ring compressor that goes down to 3.25 inches? I have the solid aluminum tapered ones for small block Chevy in standard bore and .030 over but nothing this small anymore.

 

Anyone using threaded pipe as exhaust pipe?  This engine will probably see no usage except to be bolted to the bench and started up and as such doesn't warrant the expenditure of exhaust pipes and a muffler simply because I don't know if it will ever be put into anything or simply remain a product of I new I could save it for less than $50. I know it sounds strange but when someone gives you an engine and says you probably won't be able to get it running it makes me want to fix it.

 

Things that are left to do....

 

Pick up a used solenoid as this starter has none. Pick up a oil pan gasket and head gasket. If I find a reasonably priced ignition module I have the timing cover and the ring so I need the flywheel key. Oh yes, I need two spark plugs and you can bet I won't be purchasing them at $8.00 each like I've seen them priced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

Update

 

Finally got around to purchasing a head gasket, pan gasket, flywheel key, and spark plugs for the old girl. Now, to find time to put her back together.  I bought the parts from

https://www.onanparts.com/ and found their shipping to be very fair and very fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
GMan

6bg6ba

 

The way I read Boomer's response he was telling you that without machining the flywheel on the back side it would crush the ignition rotor not the ignition module. It would definitely be worth checking that out as you would only find that to be true after putting the flywheel back on, drawing it down tight and ruining the rotor.

 

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6bg6ga

With all respect to Booner he is making an assumption the B43 is original. One thing to learn when it comes to  anything mechanical is never make an assumption.  One must always check when modifying. Gary, it would take a fool to install the rotor without taking a measurement.  Boomer is assuming that the flywheel is probably original and I did take his advice into consideration. I was a master machinist for years so it would be rather lacking that I would simply install the rotor and mash it down without first making some measurements and observations. Now, not knowing if the B43 which I got for nothing has had the flywheel changed I would naturally check it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...