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Oldman

Oldman/Old tractor! 18 Auto

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Posted (edited)

Hi, I was pushing dirt, having a good o'l time! Then she quit! Engine running, but no forward, nor reverse? Spline and coupler intact. The forward/reverse lever is very hard to move and kinda squeaky. I see the whole hydro unit looks like someone built the tractor around it! I hope to hear it's a simple fix, but I highly doubt it. Is there a rolling valve in the side of this unit and if so, how does one repair it? I have several manuals but I really don't want to get into it if it's a nightmare from hell!

The engine is strong and I have the urge to sell her off........Any and all help would be appreciated. Oh, and by the by, this an 1973 wheel horse 18 auto with three point and pto (2000 rpm) which, technically doesn't matter with respect to hydro and linkage. Listed for sale in classified section, so all you experts can have a crack at her then........

Edited by Oldman
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It would help to know what model and year :wh: you have;  lots of changes took place over the years.

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I believe the 18 auto was only one or two years. I know very little about the D series (your 18 auto was a precursor) other than the hydro system is a BEAR. Do these have keys in the hubs? If so, check to see if the axle spins inside the hub. That may be your best hope for this one!

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29 minutes ago, bmsgaffer said:

I believe the 18 auto was only one or two years. I know very little about the D series (your 18 auto was a precursor) other than the hydro system is a BEAR. Do these have keys in the hubs? If so, check to see if the axle spins inside the hub. That may be your best hope for this one!

Say, thank you! However, I wish that were the case. The lifts would still function and they do not.

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49 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

It would help to know what model and year :wh: you have;  lots of changes took place over the years.

I listed the requested information, however, I fail to see what difference that makes with respect to the issue at hand? That is, unless really don't know squat about this issue? Ha ha ha.

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I think he missed the model name in your subject line. If you have no lift then I am afraid it will have to be torn into. From what I have read on them, if you are sure that the pump shaft is still turning inside the coupler then its likely a complete tear down is necessary. 

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12 minutes ago, bmsgaffer said:

I think he missed the model name in your subject line. If you have no lift then I am afraid it will have to be torn into. From what I have read on them, if you are sure that the pump shaft is still turning inside the coupler then its likely a complete tear down is necessary. 

I am sure you hit the nail on the head! Something broke inside the hydro unit, too much torque? I will have to find a replacement. The manuals really don't describe how one is to get the unit out of the frame, a regular puzzle!

Thank you.

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Say,

   I found the valve needed to free wheel the tractor may have something to do with this? The wine you would normally hear when this valve is tight, is gone. I can move the tractor with it tight or loose.......Still, involves a tear down.

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Download the Sundstrand Manual.  Removal and repair is not for the faint of heart.

 

Are you sure the tow valve is tight (clockwise) If so and you can move tractor not good news.  manual has trouble shooting...only you can decide if yo want to tackle the work to fix it.

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/24-transmission-hydro-sundstrand-sm-492-4206pdf/

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2 hours ago, Oldman said:

I listed the requested information, however, I fail to see what difference that makes with respect to the issue at hand? That is, unless really don't know squat about this issue? Ha ha ha.

Easy!!!

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Posted (edited)

Check for a worn pump coupling between the motor and the pump. 

This often happens rendering the hydraulics useless because the engine can no longer spin the pump.

Here is an example:

58ed6b5d32e40_Wornpumpcoupling.thumb.JPG.60352a97a46cf6b44951102f1f3dcd82.JPG

Edited by JackC
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Yes, I see. No the spline and coupler are intact. Thanks. I believe it may be the fluid. I have been under the tractor looking for a drain for hours? Nothing in the manual, nor the service manual? Has to have a drain for transmission? usually on the left side of the tranny? even google come up blank! Lol!

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Look for a 1/4" allen drain plug left hand case near the back on the bottom.  Being a female fitting probably packed with dirt/crud.

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Thank you, I will.

19 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Download the Sundstrand Manual.  Removal and repair is not for the faint of heart.

 

Are you sure the tow valve is tight (clockwise) If so and you can move tractor not good news.  manual has trouble shooting...only you can decide if yo want to tackle the work to fix it.

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/24-transmission-hydro-sundstrand-sm-492-4206pdf/

Thank you, yes it was tight, clockwise. I will look for the two transaxle mentioned, it would be nice if that  were the case!

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I stripped down the block to do a rebuild, exposing the worn spline on the pump shaft.

100_1174.JPG

100_1170.JPG

100_1175.JPG

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I had to do a lot of work to get the pump ready and back unto the tractor! Finally, it's time to do the same with the engine.......

100_1186.JPG

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I'm working on mine right now for the very same reason - need to pick up the pump/coupler parts today at the machine shop . The repair wasn't easy nor cheap - this bill will hit well over $500 but should never happen again as we machined the cast coupler out , installed a steel splined pulley center from a C-161 w/Sundstrand and keyed both that spline and pump shaft . Took a wire EDM machine to do the spline cut in the coupler , that bill alone hurt bad , hope all this works as the thing is a beast and I'm determined to keep it going . I'll try to get time to do a thread on it for others...

 

Sarge

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Excellent idea! Seeings how the shafts strip or the cast coupler will strip. I know these beasts are more of a challenge to keep sound, but it's very rewarding when they run correctly! I repaired the exhaust flange on the engine too.(or should I say, had machine shop repair) $87.00-great price!

100_1196.JPG

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Had to write a check yesterday for the pump shaft/coupler machining - $350 . Not bad considering all the work they had to do with making jigs just to fit the coupling into the wire EDM machine . Splines and the key fit very snug now , just have to final weld the steel insert , drill/tap for a set screw on the key and install the whole assembly .

I consider it money well spent - the tractor is a beast and the engine on this one is in excellent condition .

 

Sarge

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I'd like to see pictures of those! Now I feel compelled to have additional support on this coupling assembly.......My engine I took down to the block to degrease now for three days! The tin was like fudge, perhaps a heat resistant paint would be best for those. (I made sure not to alter the governor and points)

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VHT engine paint is about as tough as it gets and can take the heat - not easily available in local stores but you can find it online .

Trying to get the trailer fixed (bent/destroyed tongue) and get the BIg Ugly Horse back together - hope the weather holds out long enough , thread coming soon .

 

Sarge

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Posted (edited)

do you install both types of valve cover gaskets, dry, on the K482 or one or the other?

IMG_1941.JPG

Edited by Oldman
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I spray mine with Permatex High Tack , let it set a minute and install . Only one gasket each that I know of ...got an engine book ?

 

Sarge

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There is a sentence in the manual on valve clearance and installing the chamber covers but no mention of the gaskets. It's together with permatex 2 holding the gasket to the covers and then bolted dry to the head. I find it easier to open later on.

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