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Duramax7man7

Onan P Series Governor Ball Replacement Procedure.

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Ed Kennell

Excellent tutorial.   :text-bravo::thanks:

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aHorseofCourse

:text-yeahthat:  Awesome job.  Interesting how Onan did the governors, never had one apart myself

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boomers_influence

mastiffman

in the second to the last pic. it appears that 

the governor cup hub should have been replaced.

those DIVOTS do not belong there.

 

club

i did supply the parts for this repair.

 

thank you. boomer ( the used onan engine parts guy, also NOS and new )

 

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Duramax7man7

Thanks Boomer. I didn't give you any props because you told me that you will "never do business with me again" right before you hung up the phone on me when we were discussing how the return of the exhaust manifold that didn't work out, was going to happen.

 Personally I don't see how those divots will affect anything. I think that the lighting in the photo is exaggerating them as I didn't feel anything much when reassembling it all. I don't think that a couple of thousands (max) will make the engine governor less effective. It runs great after the switching out of the spacer. So thanks for that suggestion.  

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Mocrazy1

I know this is an older thread, but I'm attempting this job now. I wanted to add that the torque value of 25-27 ft lbs, I believe, is Incorrect. I think that is for the bearing side of the engine, not the Timing cover. I believe that torque value is 8-10 ft lbs. Labeled gear case cover. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.Thanks  

1533262048866825062045.jpg

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Duramax7man7

You are correct! I did torque them properly and actually typed that in wrong... 

Thanks for clarifying that. It's appreciated. 

Andrew C.

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Mocrazy1

Thanks for the very complete article, Andrew. I tightened mine to 10 then 20. I stopped at that point, I thought it was getting too tight. Did some research and backed them off and retorqued to 10 ft lbs. I'm hoping it didn't affect the gasket or anything. 

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Bill D

Is anyone reverse engineering these flyball spacers.  Since Onan doesn't offer these new, how much longer before the supply runs out?  I have a neighbor that could make some for me using one I have as a template.  Would there be any intrest?

 

Bill

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Arthur England

Is the problem that the slots for the balls wear or that the spacer slips on the shaft? If its that the balls become loose in the spacer, would it be posible to move the balls to the other five slots?

 

Arthur

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Duramax7man7
On 8/3/2018 at 10:44 AM, Mocrazy1 said:

Thanks for the very complete article, Andrew. I tightened mine to 10 then 20. I stopped at that point, I thought it was getting too tight. Did some research and backed them off and retorqued to 10 ft lbs. I'm hoping it didn't affect the gasket or anything. 

My pleasure. Sorry for the mix up. I don't think that it would affect the gasket to the point of not sealing. They only compress to a certain point and it's probably only couple of thousands. worse case scenario I believe that you could use a good hi temp gasket seal/ maker along with the gasket if you catch a leak. Or get a new gasket. I wouldn't worry to much about it at this point. 

On 8/4/2018 at 2:03 PM, Bill D said:

Is anyone reverse engineering these flyball spacers.  Since Onan doesn't offer these new, how much longer before the supply runs out?  I have a neighbor that could make some for me using one I have as a template.  Would there be any intrest?

 

Bill

I think that is a great idea! I'm positive that there would be interest. Maybe not a super high demand but deff a small nich. 

13 hours ago, Arthur England said:

Is the problem that the slots for the balls wear or that the spacer slips on the shaft? If its that the balls become loose in the spacer, would it be posible to move the balls to the other five slots?

 

Arthur

No, it's the spacer that starts to slip on the shaft and that's typically only after the engine heats up enough to allow the spacer to swell a bit and start spinning. I don't know if it would to hit the cam with some rougher grit emery clothe, clean up the spacer with some very fine if needed and then use some extremely high strength and ultra high temp resistant thread locker and let that sit for a couple of days or more to harden before use. Or do the same and use a thin coat of JB weld to do it... Which might be better as it can withstand constant temps of 500*F and a max of 600* for short periods. 

 JB Weld "Extreme heat" can withstand 2400*F. 

Edited by Mastiffman

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Mocrazy1

I think my gasket will be ok Andrew, it's new. The engine is going back in a John Deere 318. Maybe, JB Weld would work, but you'd probably have to remove the cam if you ever needed to remove the spacer (after JB Weld). I used Loctite 272 and primer 7649. Expensive, but I don't want to do it twice. Here's a pic of my spacer, I was fortunate enough to find a steel one on a cam I purchased. Why any company would install a plastic part, under stress, in an engine is beyond me!

20180718_155204.jpeg

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Duramax7man7

Excellent! Good to hear. yeah the red loc-tite should do the  trick for the metal spacer. and WOW, snap that sucker right in half, huh? My old one would only start slipping after 25-30 minutes of mid summer mowing/ use. It was still intact. But the inside bore was blackened from spinning. yeah the steel ones are floating around. You just have to watch for them and make the move when you see them. 

 The good thing is that the engine doesn't have to be pulled from the tractor to do the job. Pop all the stuff off right there, switch out the spacers and bang it all back together with a torque wrench and off you go. 

Really glad that someone is getting use out of this write up. 

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Mocrazy1

No easy task on the John Deere 318. Engine has to come out. I'm decarboning the heads and piston while it's on the bench. PO said it would start revving after 20 minutes or so. I drove it, to park it, and surprisingly it didn't do it to me. On another forum a member said to try Mercury Quicksilver aerosol spray, with a plastic scraper, for piston tops and heads. Soak for a couple sessions and it really eats up carbon. Did you ever remove the intake valve seals? I'm replacing them, but can't find a method so far. I believe they just pull off from the valve box side. I know the manual says "once you pull the valve out of the original seal, you have to install new seals". Before and after cleaning on intake valve. 1000 hours on machine. 

 

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lynnmor

I just got an abused, approximately 1989 P220 running after replacing a loose valve seat and grinding all the valves.  After the carb adjustments it ran fine, so I did a tour of the woods and it started revving, so I guess the governor split.  Is that the symptom of a split plastic part?  I didn't open the engine yet so I don't know if it is plastic or steel, have any idea when they changed?

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Mocrazy1

I'm not sure what spacer yours has. At some point they switched over to a plastic one with an extension tab that rides in the gear notch. That way it can't slip on the cam flange. Some of the cam gears might not have the notch, so you're better off opening yours up to see what you have.I'm still not sold on plastic being used, so I found the steel spacer. Maybe some research can supply you an answer. 

s-l400.jpg

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lynnmor

Thanks for the reply, that is good information.  I have been searching for any part, using what part numbers I can find and am not having success on finding anything.  Yes, I need to pull it down, but with no available parts it will be stuck there till something turns up.  I have a tool & die shop and can make the part if necessary, but that would take a lot of time that currently I don't have.  I could machine a notch for the tab, after pulling the cam gear.  I'll contact Boomer to see if he can help.

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Mocrazy1

Yes I'm corresponding with boomer for a gasket kit. He's quite knowledgeable,  helpful, and affordable. Good luck.

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TC10284

This might be a stupid question, but is it possible to use thread locker on a plastic spacer without the extended tab, and/or somehow fashion a plastic tab that would fit in one of the empty spacer slots? 

 

I have a couple 520's with this plastic spacer without the extended tab. 

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Mocrazy1

I'm not a fan of the plastic, after seeing the flange cracked on mine. I found a metal one on fleabay. Mine was on a John Deere 318. Probably a more involved job, being the engine has to be removed. I think on a Wheel horse, you can, maybe just lift the flywheel side of the engine. If the plastic one is all you can find, you'll have to go with it. I used, a quite expensive thread locker product, and primer, to clean everything. Like $40 for the two products. I wanted to make sure they would set up permanent like. Good luck.

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lynnmor

I would make a real effort to find a metal one and then super glue it in place.  I did replace mine with a plastic one that had the tab and super glued it as well, Boomer helped me out.

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Mocrazy1

I'm sure it should be fine. Onan should have had a class action suit against them. That's no cheap repair. Nobody would tackle it, for the PO, of my John Deere, so I bought for a good price. I still love the sound of the Onan. Kinda like an old VW.

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bc.gold

Plastic retainer no tab.

 

upup.png

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TC10284
18 minutes ago, bcgold said:

Plastic retainer no tab.

 

upup.png

 

What are you showing us? 

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Mocrazy1
1 minute ago, TC10284 said:

 

What are you showing us? 

That gear doesn't have the gap for the extended tab. Here's my spacer before the replacement. Did the one shown, only have 3 ball bearings? Be sure not to loose the little ball bearing, about the size of a bb, inside the area, the governor arm rod, seats in the timing cover. It keeps the fork centered. I'm not sure if that's the correct terminology for all the parts.

20180718_155204.jpeg

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