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bo dawg

Brought one home tonight

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Ed Kennell

To check the stator, pull  all three wires off the R/R  and connect the voltmeter to the two stator wires  with it on the    AC    scale.    Polarity doesn't matter.

   With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  25-35 VAC.  It will vary directly with the RPM.     To check the R/R,  reconnect the stator wires and connect the + voltmeter lead  to the center lug and the  - lead to the battery ground.    With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  13-14 VDC.

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gwest_ca

If I may add the Ed's reply

Add a jumper from the battery (+) terminal to the regulator DC+ terminal and then check the battery voltage. The regulator must see battery voltage before it can regulate the charge current from the stator.

 

Garry

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bo dawg
19 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

To check the stator, pull  all three wires off the R/R  and connect the voltmeter to the two stator wires  with it on the    AC    scale.    Polarity doesn't matter.

   With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  25-35 VAC.  It will vary directly with the RPM.     To check the R/R,  reconnect the stator wires and connect the + voltmeter lead  to the center lug and the  - lead to the battery ground.    With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  13-14 VDC.

 

Ok cool, I will try this out this weekend and let you know what I find. Thank you Ed!

I may be jumping to soon and don't have a problem. I'm just basing it off what the volt gauge on the tractor reads and what the PO said he had to charge the battery after every other mow. But I do know the battery was junk and wouldn't take much charge after charging it all night and day. Plus it was a 2012 battery so hard telling. I have a good battery in it now.

17 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

If I may add the Ed's reply

Add a jumper from the battery (+) terminal to the regulator DC+ terminal and then check the battery voltage. The regulator must see battery voltage before it can regulate the charge current from the stator.

 

Garry

 

I will try that too Gary this weekend.

Let me ask you this;  I don't know if you can see in my previous picture of the regulator, but there is 4 wires, red being in the middle, and the 2 whites on each end going to stator. But then a gray wire also from the end post( same post as burn color wire in pic, double lug) running up to dash in the harness with the red wire. I haven't took the time trying to trace it down yet. Whew too many wires on these 520's. 

Edited by bo dawg
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gwest_ca

The tachometer gets it's signal on the gray wire from the stator. One of the regulator stator terminals is common to the terminal for the gray wire.

 

Garry

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bo dawg
On 4/5/2017 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kennell said:

To check the stator, pull  all three wires off the R/R  and connect the voltmeter to the two stator wires  with it on the    AC    scale.    Polarity doesn't matter.

   With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  25-35 VAC.  It will vary directly with the RPM.     To check the R/R,  reconnect the stator wires and connect the + voltmeter lead  to the center lug and the  - lead to the battery ground.    With the engine running at 1/2 throttle, you should measure  13-14 VDC.

 

Well I took all 3 wires off the regulator and tried to start it and it instantly acted like battery was dying to barely turning over the motor. But when I checked battery volts it still showed 12.5, I don't get it? It was suppose to start/run with the 3 wires off so to check?

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bo dawg

So after trying to test the voltage regular with no luck getting tractor running, I thought I would look the rest of the wiring over. I couldn't find the 9 pin everyone has talked about so I removed battery to look whats behind it and noticed a budge in the harness. It was taped up so I removed tape to find where the pin use to be. And there it is, the famous red wire. I'm no wiring guy, I mean I can handle the older tractors some what but this is a freakin night mare for me. I can repair the burned red wire but probably no better than what they have. Plus I've read that to correct this Hot red battery wire problem is put in a fuse down by the starter.

IMG_0109.JPG

IMG_0110.JPG

Where was the relays suppose to be?

IMG_0113a.jpg

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Ed Kennell
59 minutes ago, bo dawg said:

 

Well I took all 3 wires off the regulator and tried to start it and it instantly acted like battery was dying to barely turning over the motor. But when I checked battery volts it still showed 12.5, I don't get it? It was suppose to start/run with the 3 wires off so to check?

I don't get it either Bo.  The charging circuit  should not affect the starting circuit.  With the wires off the R/R, check  each lug for a short to ground.   

If you put the wires back on, does it start and run as normal?   I guess you can do the stator AC and the battery DC charge voltage checks  with the wires connected.   

  With the amount of hacking and heat you are uncovering,  maybe the two circuits are accidently connected in some way.

You may have to wring out each wire with the Ohm meter and check their termination against the schematic. Then replace each wire.  In effect, build a new wiring harness.

 

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bo dawg
9 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I don't get it either Bo.  The charging circuit  should not affect the starting circuit.  With the wires off the R/R, check  each lug for a short to ground.   

If you put the wires back on, does it start and run as normal?   I guess you can do the stator AC and the battery DC charge voltage checks  with the wires connected.   

  With the amount of hacking and heat you are uncovering,  maybe the two circuits are accidently connected in some way.

You may have to wring out each wire with the Ohm meter and check their termination against the schematic. Then replace each wire.  In effect, build a new wiring harness.

 

 

I really dont know how to check all that. I didn't try to start after I hooked up the R/R. I took the battery out and started looking around and got depressed and went back to the house. Lol.. I did check with the 3 wires off with the red lead on B+ and black lead on battery ground and got 12.5, and if I check each AC lug same way they read 12.5 too if that means anything.

I do plan on cutting out the burnt red connection and redoing it. As it was when I had it running last week all the dash gauges worked. Everything was working except the headlights but I think thats because the tail lights were taken off and left the hot wire open. When I stuck my test light on it to see if I had power the head lights came on. Lol!

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ericj

load test the battery by simply hold your volt meter on the battery terminals and crank the tractor over and see how much the voltage drops. I forget what they say is the lower limit of drop but I believe between 10 and 11 volts, of course the less drop then the better. I replace the nine pins on my tractors so if not for any other reason I could swap motors between tractors. I know Cable and maynered on here have the parts to replace the nine pins. I have heard some people using trailer connector to replace the factory nine pin connectors. Just a thought you can get voltage through a a bad connector but not the amperage that you need to get the job done. good luck

 

 

eric j

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Ed Kennell

Don't give up Bo.  Let's fix the red wire and any others that look burned or loose.   I would also pull and reconnect all the plug in and bolted connections.. Do this several times as this will clean the both ends and make a better connection.  Pulling these apart will also show if any of the ends are loose.

I am sure you have checked for blown fuses, but make sure you have pulled the fuses out of the holder and checked for corroded and partially missing legs and bad holders.

Pay particular attention to the fuse and holder at the lower front of the engine. This fuse and holder, the 9 pin connector , and the amp meter are all  potential problems in the charging circuit to the battery.

  The R/R must also be grounded, so loosen and retighten the bolt holding it to the tin to establish a good ground.

  Put the battery back in and with the R/R wires connected, get her running at half throttle.    Then with the three R/R wires connected, check the AC voltage across the stator  wires.

Hopefully you will measure the 25-35 VDC indicating the stator is good. 

You may want to order a new R/R. They can be had from many suppliers on line  for around $20.

  Even if your existing one is OK, they have a history of failure especially with the poor wiring you are finding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ed Kennell
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bo dawg

I appreciate your help Ed! Yes, I did check the 3 fuses on the bar and all was good. I shot air down into the holders and cleaned off ends of fuses. I removed R/R and checked the bottom for crud and cleaned those lugs with some fine sand paper cause they were pretty dull and coated. It didn't look too bad other than a slight green corrosion at the base of the lugs. One of the white AC wires that has the gray wire doubled up with has got hot or something at one time cause its a little burnt looking on the wire coating.

 

I looked for a fuse down by the engine and didn't see anything, not sure where this is? I traced all the way to starter and found nothing. Is it a different wire I'm looking for? I seen on a post somewhere here that its location is on the pully side.

I think I will get a new R/R for kicks and giggles any ways. One of the guys here posted a ebay link where their $11 buy now price.

 

I will get the battery back in and fire it up and check the R/R readings and let you know. I will cut back the burnt red wire connector and replace it. Can I put a 30amp fuse there? or just splice back in direct?

 

Thanks

Bo 

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ericj

only the 88, 89 had the fuse down by the starter

 

 

 

eric j

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WVHillbilly520H

I replaced my 9 pin with bullet connectors so they can be easily taken back apart and also use dielectric grease to help keep corrosion at bay, you really need to get yourself a download of the wiring demystification guide and manuals of your tractor I hate electronic demons and most things wiring but I persevered last year with the one I picked up last year at this time with aforementioned schematics,but here's the '95 wiring diagram,  Jeff.

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IMAG2074.jpg

Edited by WVHillbilly520H
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bo dawg

Yeah I have print outs like that diagram but even though I can understand it, there's some areas I don't.

Whats the whole purpose for the 9 pin connection other than unplugging the stupid harness? Just to repair later down the road or swap out that section of wiring?

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WVHillbilly520H

Yep just to "quick" connect/disconnect the engine to the chassis but atmosphere and storing conditions all break that connection down from corrosion to heat/cold cycles ect, it's just so much easier to do it with the "bullet" or "spade" style connectors and dielectric grease then less of a worry later, Jeff.

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ohiofarmer

I have  steep side ditches and mow them by having a single wheel weight on the 'up' side of the tractor. To stay seated, I put all my weight on the up side of the seat. The seat tower is made up of very thin metal and it broke out much as yours did, so I re-inforced it using an old circular saw blade and angle iron to beef it up. The seat was nearly ready to let go and it could have caused a bad injury if it broken and dumped me off in the rock pile at the end of the ditch. Just a poor design from the start, and even the early tractors are pretty weak at the rear of the seat tower, but at least they have thicker metal

 

So guys, check yours out for cracks at the rear of the seat tower.

 

 Anybody with a 520 needs to look at the idler pulley on the belt that drives the hydro. the previously mentioned seat tower has some thin bushings that are the wear surface for the idler arm and if that bushing wears through, your seat tower will wallow out in short order. Not an easy fix. Mine is fixed ugly so it would be a treat to see what someone with talent would do to fix it.

 

 Meanwhile,all you guys with low hours 520's should oil up the bushing/swing arm on the tranny idler to make sure it does not experience excessive wear.

i also found that a rubber band made from a motorcycle tube cuts down on the vibration on the swing arm vs.the factory supplied steel spring [that keeps the idler tightening against the belt.]

 

 Some of the hydros have an air piston/ shock on the idler and they are a much better system. That tells me that Toro had some problems with tractors like mine and saw the need to improve them. 

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bo dawg

Ok, had some me time with the beast this morning. I fixed the burnt red wire coming from R/R that is mated to the white wire going to the 30amp fuse. (wire marked #67). Put battery in, tested VDC 12.56, started up motor, check battery at VDC 12.38 at both idle and full throttle. Also same reading on B+ lug of R/R.

Now switched meter to VAC and checked both AC lugs on R/R at 1/2 or more throttle and read 40, then full throttle and read 50.

Let motor run for about 10 mins and rechecked across battery terms and still 12.38. Shut motor off and got across battery terms 12.56.

So at this point do you think its the R/R not charging enough?

Tractors volt gage read just under 12 running idle, and a little lower at full throttle.

 

Took off fuse block and inspected under and it looked ok. Everything seems intact and all gauges work, including gas gauge and hr meter.

1 of the relays is a little discolored and funky on the bottom too.

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953 nut
1 hour ago, bo dawg said:

So at this point do you think its the R/R not charging enough?

Have you remover the R/R and cleaned the area where it attaches and the body of the R/R to ensure a good ground?

1 hour ago, bo dawg said:

AC lugs on R/R at 1/2 or more throttle and read 40, then full throttle and read 50.

Numbers sound a bit high but could be the meter is not accurate.

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Ed Kennell

Sounds like you may have fixed the problem.  Like Richard said, the AC does seem higher than normal.  I am not sure if this is a problem.

 It is not surprising the tractor voltmeter reads different from your multimeter.   That could just be an accuracy issue.

 One thing we could is purposely discharge the battery by burning the lights until it measures 11.5 volts.

Then start the engine and measure the R/R DC output.     I am thinking if your battery is actually already at full charge, the R/R will not attempt to charge it higher.

You can also try the new R/R .  Keep us informed.     Sorry I had you looking for a fuse at the front,  I lost track of the year of your 520.

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bo dawg
2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Have you remover the R/R and cleaned the area where it attaches and the body of the R/R to ensure a good ground?

Numbers sound a bit high but could be the meter is not accurate.

 

Yea I pulled the R/R off and cleaned it all including the lugs.

11 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Sounds like you may have fixed the problem.  Like Richard said, the AC does seem higher than normal.  I am not sure if this is a problem.

 It is not surprising the tractor voltmeter reads different from your multimeter.   That could just be an accuracy issue.

 One thing we could is purposely discharge the battery by burning the lights until it measures 11.5 volts.

Then start the engine and measure the R/R DC output.     I am thinking if your battery is actually already at full charge, the R/R will not attempt to charge it higher.

You can also try the new R/R .  Keep us informed.     Sorry I had you looking for a fuse at the front,  I lost track of the year of your 520.

 

That would be nice if it is fixed. I still like to know what made that wire from R/R melt the connectors. When the new R/R comes in I'm going to install it any ways and see if theres a difference. I need some seat time with it and see how it does soon as I get the new bearing block on the steering.

I will let you know how it go's.

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bo dawg

 

That would be nice if it is fixed. I still like to know what made that wire from R/R melt the connectors. When the new R/R comes in I'm going to install it any ways and see if theres a difference. I need some seat time with it and see how it does soon as I get the new bearing block on the steering.

I will let you know how it go's.

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Ed Kennell

Just too much resistance in a bad connector will create the heat as the current tries to squeeze through the restriction.

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bo dawg
On 4/8/2017 at 9:15 PM, Ed Kennell said:

Sounds like you may have fixed the problem.  Like Richard said, the AC does seem higher than normal.  I am not sure if this is a problem.

 It is not surprising the tractor voltmeter reads different from your multimeter.   That could just be an accuracy issue.

 One thing we could is purposely discharge the battery by burning the lights until it measures 11.5 volts.

Then start the engine and measure the R/R DC output.     I am thinking if your battery is actually already at full charge, the R/R will not attempt to charge it higher.

You can also try the new R/R .  Keep us informed.     Sorry I had you looking for a fuse at the front,  I lost track of the year of your 520.

 

Well, I got the new R/R in the mail and put it on today, getting good voltage now. 14 showing on the dash gauge. The old one never got above 10. So between the bad R/R and a few bad connecting wires now I should be ok, everything works like it should. Now I can work on a few other items and will be time to clean her up good and have fun. Lol

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Ed Kennell

Thanks for the update Dawg.    Gotta luv it when a plan comes together.   :text-bravo:

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