Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Wow, that hooby dooby fix does look good. The semi trailer will be dropped in our driveway tomorrow. I'm not sure what day I will find the spare parts. There's some bad weather coming in the next couple days so it might slow us down. We can keep the trailer until Monday if we need to.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Racinbob said:

Wow, that hooby dooby fix does look good. The semi trailer will be dropped in our driveway tomorrow. I'm not sure what day I will find the spare parts. There's some bad weather coming in the next couple days so it might slow us down. We can keep the trailer until Monday if we need to.

I'm going to put things back together as is for now so no worries at all. Take your time. I figure I'll wear out what I have now.. and I'll have a backup for when the inevitable happens. I'm hoping for a year or 2. But now that I think about it, with my luck I'll need the parts by next week! To think, all of this started with one little oil leak.

On 3/23/2017 at 11:23 AM, stevasaurus said:

Of all the transmissions that I have opened, the bronze in the reverse idler and the cluster gear has never been bad...in fact, those bronze bearings have always been like new.  That needle bearing in the input gear is a different story.  I've had to replace quite a few of them.  I put the gear in a vise and use a small, sharp blade screwdriver to tap into the space between the bearing race and the gear.  The race is thin hardened steel and rips and snaps fairly easily.  Once it does that, it pulls right out.  :)

By the way, the bearings in my reverse idler and my cluster gear look brand new so I'm going to leave them be. I also picked up a b108 needle bearing but decided not to swap that out either. The one that's in there now is in good shape..  and I feel better when I have spare parts! I can always replace it when I change out the diff and brake gears sometime in the future. 

Edited by john7
Outsmarted by technology
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, that trans may last another 40 years, especially if you are not going to turn over dirt, or slam it into frozen snow banks.  I certainly would not be afraid to mow grass with it, or do regular chores.  :)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I just got done assembling the transmission. Everything went together nicely. The bew bronze bearings are in. I chopped up an extra $2 harbor freight hammer I had to get the axle tube bearings all the way seated. I ground the hammer face down flat so the chamfer wouldn't flare the bearing outward. Worked pretty well.

20170328_190537_zpsd7eom50h.jpg

The hone worked well, but I'm with you steve, I'm too impatient to do that again. It took about an hour to get all 4 to fit nicely.

 

My EE6 bearings and the unground bearings went in without a hassle.

20170404_133752_zpsy3rbltua.jpg

And the thrust washer seems to be doing its job. It lifted the bearing up on the mushroom side just enough to clear the cluster gear bearing on the same side.. so no more grinding on that! 

 

I dry fit it before final assembly and everything fit nicely.

20170404_184938_zpsrjwpuldg.jpg

20170404_152536_zps6axqdqau.jpg

 I did, however have to grind down some of the machinist's work on the hooby dooby on the mushroom side. The mushroom gear was touching it ever so slightly. I told him he could build it up a bit more on the left side but not the right because of that gear... he got the sides confused. No biggy though. 

 

I dressed the gaskets, tapped in some new seals on the input shaft and brake shaft, and got the trans put back together. 

**TADA**

20170404_195721_zpsnoqgvcsx.jpg

20170404_195806_zpsblqxnsco.jpg

 

All seems well with one exception. I dry fit this thing 6-7 times when honing the bearings and everything turned nicely. It even turned nicely when I dry fit it before installing the gaskets (I torqued side plates to about 7 ft lbs). Now that I have the gaskets dressed and installed and torqued all the way down things seem a little bound up. It has to be the bearings. The gears are turning smoothly and I don't hear or feel any gears rubbing or ginding against anything.

 

To give you an idea of the amount of force necessary to turn the trans while it's in gear... I put the pully back on the input shaft to give me some leverage and I can turn it in all 4 gears with slight force. But I can not turn it by hand without the pully.

 

My intuition tells me that I will probably be okay with it like this. It may just take a ride or two to let those bronze bearings wear in. But I'd like some opinions before I move on to painting. Any thoughts? 

 

And yes, I'm going to paint everything in. I know this may not be the popular approach, or the easiest to deal with if I have an issue down the road. But I do it because it was painted after assembly originally. Well, I can at least say with certainty that it was painted like this before I began the restoration. So, in the interest of maintaining it's originality! And I personally really like the way it looks. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, john7 said:

So I just got done assembling the transmission. Everything went together nicely. The bew bronze bearings are in. I chopped up an extra $2 harbor freight hammer I had to get the axle tube bearings all the way seated. I ground the hammer face down flat so the chamfer wouldn't flare the bearing outward. Worked pretty well.

20170328_190537_zpsd7eom50h.jpg

The hone worked well, but I'm with you steve, I'm too impatient to do that again. It took about an hour to get all 4 to fit nicely.

 

My EE6 bearings and the unground bearings went in without a hassle.

20170404_133752_zpsy3rbltua.jpg

And the thrust washer seems to be doing its job. It lifted the bearing up on the mushroom side just enough to clear the cluster gear bearing on the same side.. so no more grinding on that! 

 

I dry fit it before final assembly and everything fit nicely.

20170404_184938_zpsrjwpuldg.jpg

20170404_152536_zps6axqdqau.jpg

 I did, however have to grind down some of the machinist's work on the hooby dooby on the mushroom side. The mushroom gear was touching it ever so slightly. I told him he could build it up a bit more on the left side but not the right because of that gear... he got the sides confused. No biggy though. 

 

I dressed the gaskets, tapped in some new seals on the input shaft and brake shaft, and got the trans put back together. 

**TADA**

20170404_195721_zpsnoqgvcsx.jpg

20170404_195806_zpsblqxnsco.jpg

 

All seems well with one exception. I dry fit this thing 6-7 times when honing the bearings and everything turned nicely. It even turned nicely when I dry fit it before installing the gaskets (I torqued side plates to about 7 ft lbs). Now that I have the gaskets dressed and installed and torqued all the way down things seem a little bound up. It has to be the bearings. The gears are turning smoothly and I don't hear or feel any gears rubbing or ginding against anything.

 

To give you an idea of the amount of force necessary to turn the trans while it's in gear... I put the pully back on the input shaft to give me some leverage and I can turn it in all 4 gears with slight force. But I can not turn it by hand without the pully.

 

My intuition tells me that I will probably be okay with it like this. It may just take a ride or two to let those bronze bearings wear in. But I'd like some opinions before I move on to painting. Any thoughts? 

 

And yes, I'm going to paint everything in. I know this may not be the popular approach, or the easiest to deal with if I have an issue down the road. But I do it because it was painted after assembly originally. Well, I can at least say with certainty that it was painted like this before I began the restoration. So, in the interest of maintaining it's originality! And I personally really like the way it looks. 

The honing was a task for me to but I wouldnt ever got the shafts to fit. Trans looks great.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks very nice John! And that seems pretty typical on it being tight. With a little run time the bushings should wear in and should make it easier. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, john7 said:

So I just got done assembling the transmission. Everything went together nicely. The bew bronze bearings are in. I chopped up an extra $2 harbor freight hammer I had to get the axle tube bearings all the way seated. I ground the hammer face down flat so the chamfer wouldn't flare the bearing outward. Worked pretty well.

20170328_190537_zpsd7eom50h.jpg

The hone worked well, but I'm with you steve, I'm too impatient to do that again. It took about an hour to get all 4 to fit nicely.

 

My EE6 bearings and the unground bearings went in without a hassle.

20170404_133752_zpsy3rbltua.jpg

And the thrust washer seems to be doing its job. It lifted the bearing up on the mushroom side just enough to clear the cluster gear bearing on the same side.. so no more grinding on that! 

 

I dry fit it before final assembly and everything fit nicely.

20170404_184938_zpsrjwpuldg.jpg

20170404_152536_zps6axqdqau.jpg

 I did, however have to grind down some of the machinist's work on the hooby dooby on the mushroom side. The mushroom gear was touching it ever so slightly. I told him he could build it up a bit more on the left side but not the right because of that gear... he got the sides confused. No biggy though. 

 

I dressed the gaskets, tapped in some new seals on the input shaft and brake shaft, and got the trans put back together. 

**TADA**

20170404_195721_zpsnoqgvcsx.jpg

20170404_195806_zpsblqxnsco.jpg

 

All seems well with one exception. I dry fit this thing 6-7 times when honing the bearings and everything turned nicely. It even turned nicely when I dry fit it before installing the gaskets (I torqued side plates to about 7 ft lbs). Now that I have the gaskets dressed and installed and torqued all the way down things seem a little bound up. It has to be the bearings. The gears are turning smoothly and I don't hear or feel any gears rubbing or ginding against anything.

 

To give you an idea of the amount of force necessary to turn the trans while it's in gear... I put the pully back on the input shaft to give me some leverage and I can turn it in all 4 gears with slight force. But I can not turn it by hand without the pully.

 

My intuition tells me that I will probably be okay with it like this. It may just take a ride or two to let those bronze bearings wear in. But I'd like some opinions before I move on to painting. Any thoughts? 

 

And yes, I'm going to paint everything in. I know this may not be the popular approach, or the easiest to deal with if I have an issue down the road. But I do it because it was painted after assembly originally. Well, I can at least say with certainty that it was painted like this before I began the restoration. So, in the interest of maintaining it's originality! And I personally really like the way it looks. 

I reassembled mine about a month ago and mine is on the tighter side to, but it does turn. I'm thinking about doing what Stevasaurus did and running it off another power source ( Steve used one of his tractors in the video) to see how it does. Check that out when you can.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jake Kuhn said:

Looks very nice John! And that seems pretty typical on it being tight. With a little run time the bushings should wear in and should make it easier. 

Thanks, and thanks again for the bearings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, that trans has nothing wrong with it and it looks like it should be sitting on a coffee table in the living room.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

  I kind of saw something that may be making your trans tight.  In your 2nd picture (one with the bearings in the plates), it looks like your closed bearings are sticking up a touch and not seated flush.  If they are, it could be pinching the shafts and making it hard to turn.  They should be flush in their seats, but not buried.  Sinking them all the way can also make the bearing hard to turn.  If it is just the picture, and they are flush, then the trans will loosen up as you drive it.  Remember, being dry yet will make it tight also.

   Dang that looks nice Mate.  :occasion-xmas:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good catch Steve! I pulled everything back apart and had a look. They are flush... now. I think what happened was when I snugged the side plates up and turned the gears a little that those bearings wiggled down a bit. I gave them a couple taps for good measure, and they do turn with no rub against the side plates. 

 

Now that it's back together it still turns with roughly the same resistance. It may be a little more free but I can't really tell. I'm going to say the bronze bearings are a little snug which will hopefully loosen up with a couple laps around the yard. 

 

Primer and paint to come..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent John!!  You will be fine running it now then.  It is too bad you have to paint it.  WOW  :occasion-xmas:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Now that I've had a few hours to think about this I have a hypothesis about the trans not turning freely: The thrust washer has pushed the brake shaft gear over just enough to put it in a bind or 'pinch' it between the side plates. 

 

The reasons I think this may be the case are 1) I can freely, and with zero resistance, turn each axle seperately but not together in the same direction. This shoud mean that it's not the bronze bearings. And that it has to be 'upstream' from there. 2) I can only turn the input shaft using the pulley (for added leverage), but not without it. 3) I moved 'downstream' from there to the brake shaft. I placed the same pulley from the input shaft on it and can not turn it with all my might. 

 

These little tests that I did were done in all 4 of the gears with the exact same results. Neutral, however, spins freely and with almost no noticeable resistance.

 

With these results I can start to eliminate potential problem areas. The first one to eliminate is the diff, axles, and bronze bearings. Next, the input shaft and pinion.

 

This leaves the cluster gear assembly and brake shaft gear for the potential problem area. 

 

Besides new bearings the only thing that has changed from before I dissassembled the trans until now is that thrust washer.  

 

Let's say it is the thrust washer... I need it there to prevent the mushroom gear from grinding against the cluster gear bearing.

 

I have 1 idea to solve this. Add a second thrust washer to the cluster gear on the left sideplate. This may unpinch things... but it will also widen the distance between the sideplates..

 

Any thoughts? I am all ears and sort of at a loss. 

Edited by john7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you used a thrust washer, you should only use one...it should be against the plate, under the bearing in which the large part of the mushroom gear goes.  It should only be about 1/32".  It would have nothing to do with moving the mushroom gear anywhere...it just keeps that bearing from falling in closer to the plate.  Actually, if you got that bearing flush in the holder with the thrust washer under the bearing, you are OK.  Actually, I usually do not put that washer back when I do a trans.  If the bearings are "flush" in their places, the mushroom gear will not rub. 

   As far as the rest of the stuff you were doing, you have to remember that the trans has gear ratios...ie. you can always turn the input pulley, but the gearing makes it almost impossible to turn the brake shaft while in gear.  If your trans is in neutral, it would take a lot of strength to turn both axles at the same time in the same direction.  You should be trying to turn the axles in different directions (while in neutral) to test the axle bronze bearings.  If you want to try something, take out the thrust washer and see if that helps.  If you can turn the input shaft, with the pulley on it and it sounds good...no screatches...you should be fine.  Do you have any oil on any of the gears yet??

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wound up ditching the thrust washer. It was, in fact, the culprit. The mushroom gear doesn't seem to touch the bearing and bearing cup for the cluster gear. This could be from the new, tighter fitting bronze bearings, or that damage could have been from hard use 50 or 60 years ago... Either way it doesn't appear to be an issue at this point.  Here's the pic again of the damage that we were hoping the thrust washer would help avoid.

20170326_204406_zpswshilvpf.jpg

 

I have it back together and will be spraying primer this morning. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, it is the worn bearings that let that large gear rub on things in the case.  New bearings equals no rubbing.  :occasion-xmas:  Post some pictures of it painted.  :)

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Primed

20170406_161530_zpstzx2q61z.jpg

...

20170406_170156_zpslxckwstk.jpg

20170406_170145_zpsoucl6sh3.jpg

 

I know it's off the transmission topic, but I had a couple other parts I wanted to do while I had the whole spray gun setup out and the garage lined with plastic..

20170406_170108_zpsptntxarg.jpg

20170406_170119_zpsishjhsck.jpg

20170406_170129_zpsyn1sykco.jpg

 

Wait to dry, sand, and then spray with color!

 

To be continued...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your thread John  so you are allowed to post & steal your own thread with cool primer pics......we lIke seeing that 'cause the next step is RED....it doesn't take much to trip our hammer around here! I agree with Steve on the coffee table piece tho, now you know why he is our resident 3 piece expert!  Very nice work fer sure .... triple :handgestures-thumbupright::handgestures-thumbupright::handgestures-thumbupright:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This pic is the bomb

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:49 PM, john7 said:

I chopped up an extra $2 harbor freight hammer

Some tools must die so others may live!

imageproxy.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha! Whatever works, right?

 

I've accumulated a few tools made just for my RJ.

20170407_095825_zpsn0ld0zhv.jpg

 

There's more but they are in a chest wrapped in plastic at the moment while I paint.

 

I have to say that Stevasaurus's carriage bolt idea has been the most handy so far! 

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey John...I was over at my Mom's yesterday looking for wire to fix a few things with my 876,,,and guess what...i found a puller over there just like the one in the top of your picture above.  You can flip the ends on it to make it work better.  Very cool.  :occasion-xmas:  I think it is the same one.  :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a harbor freight cheapy because I had to do some grinding on the little 'claws' to get it to fit between the flywheel and the crank bearing plate. It still makes me EXTREMELY nervous.. I'm afraid I'm going to snap or crack the cast flywheel. Those thing get stuck on there pretty good. I soak it in a penatrant and tap it with a mallet while tightening the puller.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, some color :woohoo:!!! The pictures make it look a bit orange, but I assure you it is deep deep red IH-50. 

 

20170407_162407_zpsgg0gmpwh.jpg

20170407_162413_zpsgvl294vz.jpg

20170407_162415_zpswrijtsmd.jpg

20170407_162420_zpswcdbs3js.jpg

20170407_162430_zpsryopkjoy.jpg

 

Still VERY wet in these pics.

 

As far as finished durability and appearance goes, I LOVE this paint. The biggest downside to it is that it takes 7 days to cure. *7 Days*!!! 

 

The trans came out beautiful, and since it's cast I won't do any color sanding and buffing. I did have a snafu with the blower housing, though. A fly landed right above the word Kohler. Other than the hood this is the most visible 5 square inch area on the whole tractor!! Murphy had to get one more over on me I guess.. 

 

I'll post some pics next week when I get it back on the RJ.. and let yall know how the trans is working out.. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good news is that our internet is finally working again. No more phone crap. Also good new is that I found the box the tranny parts are in. Well, the bad news is that the only differential I have left is for a 2 piece. Thinking back the differential I had for a 3 piece was the one in another thread where I made a modification enabling splined axles to be used in the older differential. I remember un-converting it and sending it to another member here. Sorry John. :( But I must tell you that you are doing an outstanding job on that. :handgestures-thumbupright: 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2017 at 6:01 PM, john7 said:

Finally, some color :woohoo:!!! The pictures make it look a bit orange, but I assure you it is deep deep red IH-50. 

 

20170407_162407_zpsgg0gmpwh.jpg

20170407_162413_zpsgvl294vz.jpg

20170407_162415_zpswrijtsmd.jpg

20170407_162420_zpswcdbs3js.jpg

20170407_162430_zpsryopkjoy.jpg

 

Still VERY wet in these pics.

 

As far as finished durability and appearance goes, I LOVE this paint. The biggest downside to it is that it takes 7 days to cure. *7 Days*!!! 

 

The trans came out beautiful, and since it's cast I won't do any color sanding and buffing. I did have a snafu with the blower housing, though. A fly landed right above the word Kohler. Other than the hood this is the most visible 5 square inch area on the whole tractor!! Murphy had to get one more over on me I guess.. 

 

I'll post some pics next week when I get it back on the RJ.. and let yall know how the trans is working out.. 

All flys must die

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Racinbob said:

The good news is that our internet is finally working again. No more phone crap. Also good new is that I found the box the tranny parts are in. Well, the bad news is that the only differential I have left is for a 2 piece. Thinking back the differential I had for a 3 piece was the one in another thread where I made a modification enabling splined axles to be used in the older differential. I remember un-converting it and sending it to another member here. Sorry John. :( But I must tell you that you are doing an outstanding job on that. :handgestures-thumbupright: 

No biggie. Thanks for keeping me in mind! 

 

And thanks, so far I'm happy with how it's turning out. But I won't really know until I get some oil in it and take it for a lap or 2. 

Edited by john7
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By greentruck
      we have a wheel horse rj58 riding tractor and mower deck, we purchased this unit 10 yrs ago from the estate it was purchased from new text us a phone if your interested in knowing more

    • By john7
      I suppose I should have started this back when I began restoring this plow but better late than never right? It's pretty much completed now except for the decals that I am still looking for... so technically it's still a work in progress. 
       
      Anyhow, I picked up the HD-42 plow with an RJ mount back in mid January with great help from @OILUJ52. 
       
      Here's what I started with:


      It had all the essential parts; blade, front channel, rj mount, lift bar, and foot pedal (no chain, though). The only things missing were the 2 skids. Everything was in decent condition with some light to mild pitting vertically along the left edge of the blade face. The "front channel", as it's termed in the parts list, came mounted on an A-frame with 4 bolts, and the piece that attaches to the lift bar had been removed from it to accommodate the A-frame setup. All easy fixes! 
       
      First things first, I made a new piece for the lift bar to attach to on the front channel, welded that on, and welded the 4 bolt holes up on both sides.


       
      Next, I made up some skids.


       
      I didn't snap a picture of the pitting on the left edge of the blade but I ran side by side beads the entire height of the blade about 2 inches wide - must have blown through 10 rods to do it. I filled in any other digs and gouges with welds. Being a plow, I didn't want body filler anywhere close to the blade. I did, however, use a small amount to fill in a couple of scratches on the topside of the front channel. 
       
      I made one modification that was not original. There are 2 pieces of angle iron that are bent to fit the curvature of the blade and mounted to the backside of the blade on each outside edge. These were originally plug welded to the blade leaving a gap between the 2 on the outside edge - a perfect place for water to get trapped and promote corrosion. So I welded those up on both sides. It makes the edges look much better too!
       
      And I just realized that I didn't snap any pics of everything down to bare metal or after body work either. But, here's everything after all my fixes and shot with a second coat of primer.




       
      I'm having some trouble attaching the after paint pics. Will post when I figure it out.
       
       
       
    • By Mike'sHorseBarn
      Looking for a hood for my RJ58 in decent shape. Mine is just too far gone at this point for my skill level. I know these are hard to find but I hope to come across one!
    • By Texas Todd
      Looking for an RJ58 plunger rod P/N 3468 or a good picture with dimensions to make one. May need the guide and spring, not sure what I am looking for with the guide. Parts pic and parts list as well as the tractor pictured below

      Thanks!


       
       
       
       
       
    • By Camarokid
      Hello red square new member here, I would like to share my very first tractor with you all. A 1958 rj58 that I picked up the other day. This past Friday I left work a half hour early to make it to the bank to only travel 10 mins down the road from my job to purchase a rj. So I took it home and enjoyed my weekend staring at it! Can't play yet with it... Have some searching and work to do XD


×