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stevebo

551 Suburban Electrical Help

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1 hour ago, stevebo said:

It sounds strong but smokes some. Cannot confirm if it is the fuel with a decent amount or sea foam in it or the motor burning oil. I found two oil leaks. One coming from governor shaft and one around oil filler tube. I need to figure out part numbers for new oil seals for each.

Those areas will leak oil when there's excessive pressure inside the crank case. Possibly caused from blow-by of the rings, blocked breather, over filled oil level ect.

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Vin is the engine man, I only web diagnose!

Besides, if that engine ever ends up on my bench, it would be behind the 5 or 6 of my own engines I already have to fix. You could probably expect to get it back in a few years! :lol:

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Posted (edited)

58c42934ab658_lauson2.thumb.jpg.6cddf96d7451d23e1d19f0e758f0fb5d.jpg

 

58c42939c9e44_lauson3.thumb.jpg.d74ff03089cabe8a3ce9bcf5482fc4ed.jpg

 

lauson4.thumb.jpg.05c81495ba72e7a7da6a8bfe19329294.jpg

 

58c4293d0357c_lauson8.thumb.jpg.e778efef56626b5fb282a8e504d84922.jpg

Edited by formariz
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@stevebo I found the switch I had here so when you get that new switch, wiring is as follows.

 

B terminal---Ground wire from battery.   For the 551 this connection needs to be made.

S terminal-- To solenoid small center terminal.

M terminal-- To magneto shut off wire.

 

Off---When key is turned all the way to left (off) magneto is grounded to case of switch which in turn is grounded to metal of tractor.

Run--Magneto terminal is open

Start--Magneto (M) terminal open, S terminal connects  to ground (B) activating solenoid.

 

That switch can also be used for an engine with electric start and magneto ignition using a normal solenoid that is not insulated and it is grounded by case. In that case you would put power from battery to the B terminal .It is rated I believe at 70Amps.  Pretty versatile switch for many different applications and nearly indestructible.

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I hooked it up and it starts but does not shut off using key however I did not follow your instructions in the last post. The other issue I had was the coil or points started to heat up the way I had it so I disconnected the lead from the battery + lead to the top right connection on the mag plate. I ill try your way and see how it goes. Here are pictures of the new switch and box cover for future reference. I ordered 3 so as of now I have two extras but you never know as my organizing skills are not all that good so I may misplace or forget I have them in the future. :ph34r:

IMG_2982.JPG

IMG_2978.JPG

IMG_2979.JPG

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Posted (edited)

Coil and points are under flywheel. Smoking from there?

 

No power to that switch!!!

 

Edited by formariz

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1 minute ago, formariz said:

Coil and points are under flywheel. Smoking from there?

 

Yup but I think I caught it in time. My new issue as of yesterday is the new aftermarket carb I got keeps getting needle stuck and flooding. My old carb I soaked but there is a bushing that goes through the carb bowl that the needle sits in is missing and the float is shot. I purchased a rebuild kit but without those parts it is useless. Anyone have any idea what the initial needle setting would be on the aftermarket carb?

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Posted (edited)

I think setting should be about the same as the stock about two turns. That should allow it to start. If you just want to run it for now and have a Carter from a k91 use that. Runs excellent with those. Just have to rework how cables attach to it but as a temporary measure to work on it you don't need to do that.

 

 

Edited by formariz

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Posted (edited)

Not off hand but try this. Remove solenoid and put it on bench. It is now not grounded anywhere. Connect a temporary wire from a battery to terminal that has a B on it. Now connect another wire from battery negative terminal and touch it to the small terminal. If it actuates solenoid it is the correct one (insulated)since the case does not need to be grounded.

 

Also look closely at the connections to the diode panel and compare to the the schematic I sent you on this post with a fuse if that is what you have. I have had those tractors come to me with that panel upside down and that is confusing. Retrace all wires. You may have to start from scratch and forget how it is connected now. I have seen all kinds of craziness with wiring in these.

 

I may have just answered an older reply about solenoid. Getting old.

Edited by formariz

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Well I tried that set up and it still does not kill it. I have to step back for a little bit. I may have to do what you said with starting over. I think it will be a little while.The last thing is there is no current on the diode post that is suppose to connect to the positive side of the battery to charge. I may have smoked something behind flywheel? Still runs so it has spark?

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How do you kill it now?

Or how do you stop the motor?

 

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I have been choking it out.

 

I am curious about using a carter model N. I like that carb and feel they are easier to work on plus I have and extra or two. Do they run good with the carters? Anyone else running a carter?

 

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1 hour ago, stevebo said:

I have been choking it out.

 

 

 

There is one wire that goes under the flywheel and connects to the points.  This is the wire that, when grounded, will kill the motor.  

 

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2 minutes ago, N3PUY said:

There is one wire that goes under the flywheel and connects to the points.  This is the wire that, when grounded, will kill the motor.  

 

It may be compromised...

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3 hours ago, stevebo said:

Well I tried that set up and it still does not kill it. I have to step back for a little bit. I may have to do what you said with starting over. I think it will be a little while.The last thing is there is no current on the diode post that is suppose to connect to the positive side of the battery to charge. I may have smoked something behind flywheel? Still runs so it has spark?

 

Try this. Remove red wire from magneto post (center one) on board. Leave only magneto ground coming from under flywheel. Connect a wire to battery negative post and with engine running touch the other end of that wire to magneto wire. If it shuts off then problem may be with red wire going to switch or switch body is not properly grounded. If it does not switch off then magneto wire is severed along its length somewhere. If this is a tractor that you want to keep I suggest that you do ignore all existing wires and do start from the beginning.Take flywheel off and see what is going on underneath there. I have found many with cracked or severed wires under there. You can while you are there change points and condenser. Also not easy to find but if you need them I have them both. You then can make sure the right wires are going to the right place. Your diodes may be fried if it was run without the battery in the system. If you have to run it without battery diodes must be removed. I have diodes if you need them.

1 hour ago, stevebo said:

I have been choking it out.

 

I am curious about using a carter model N. I like that carb and feel they are easier to work on plus I have and extra or two. Do they run good with the carters? Anyone else running a carter?

 

I have used the Carter many times. On mine I rather have the correct Walbro, but if I work on one for someone else I rather use the Carter since tractor starts better with the Carter. That is the main complaint about them, hard starting or not starting. The Carter is also easier to adjust and less finicky when dirty. You just have to be a little creative with the cables to throttle and choke since connections are different.

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The jury is out on whether or not I am going to do a full restore. I want to make sure to get it right before pulling all apart. I will try to pull flywheel and see what I find. Thanks for all the help guys.

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Steve, after seeing that motor I would take the breather plate off and clean it good, I bet the oil blow out will go away.

 

As for the Carter N on the Techy, it should work without issue, the only issue (depending on the Carter carb) that may arise is how the throttle linkage hooks up... you have that early version Carter N (round bowl/#13 throat) on first stair landing right side beam/ledge, it should work... but I wasn't looking... I could just feel it being there :happy-jumpeveryone:  

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@formariz

 

I bought this tractor from Steve mid project on a whim while at a meet and greet this past spring.

 

I am getting ready to dive in on it again.

 

The issue with it not turning off with Key assuming wiring is correct would seem to be a bad coil especially as it appears to have been compromised earlier and some smoke was evident. As I see it.

 

The reason I have a questions is that the tractor has started 2-3 times since I acquired it and battery seems fine. Meaning it appears top be charging.

Only plausible explanation would be that the wire from switch to coil opened but coil remained intact....or maybe the battery chemically is charging enough to sustain itself as I don't tend to run it that lengthy when I have started it.

 

So in your opinion does my theory of the opened wire seem plausible?

 

Barring that, is the part number for replacement coil the one you identified in post 41? WICO #12915 5-5033 COIL FITS LAUSON ENGINES 28259 NEW OLD STOCK!!

 

Thanks

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Just to make sure I understand your issue. Tractor will start and run but it will not shut off with key?

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Yes. Same issue Steve had. I've not yet looked at the wiring but assuming he wired it as you had indicated in this thread...

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Does he have the new switch he bought on it? Is there a wire from switch to magneto terminal or is it just grounded to hood? It should be wired as schematic #2.

image.jpeg.03d49dfc773429e9e6d94c78b24a3f99.jpeg

Edited by formariz

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New switch. Wire to magneto.

From memory

 

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I'll need to verify

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On new switch B terminal goes to battery GROUND, S terminal goes to small terminal on solenoid, and M terminal goes to rectifier board Magneto connection (center connection between diodes). Everything on that tractor is switched with GROUND. No battery power goes to switch at all. If tractor starts and runs but it will not shutoff with switch and connections are as I stated above specially the terminal B connection, the problem is the magneto ground wire. When tractor is running attempt to shut it off by grounding magneto connection at rectifier board instead of using the switch.Best way to do that is to temporarily add a wire to that connection so you can safely ground it away from board. You do not want to short the two AC connections at panel. If it shuts off, problem is between that point and switch. If not it then is that wire going to ignition coil that it is broken somewhere. You will have to remove flywheel and see where the break is. Ignition coil should be good since it starts and runs. The smoke condition Stevebo had I believe it was that he put power to switch and that was the smoke source.

 

The part # on post 41 is the correct coil for that engine. Not easy to find.

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