Differential swap question

[pfrederi 17,129]

Had the 310-8 with the big ag tires out today to haul the ash barrel away.  Had to take 2 tries to get up a grade with some packed snow, watching one wheel spinning furiously the other sitting still.  The last two days of plowing snow with my Charger and Electro both with the 10 pinion when the snow pile tried to stop them they dug holes with both wheels.  You can't beat the 10 pinion for use on snow and ice.

 

So I realize the 10 pinion was never made in a 1" axle (as used in my 310).  However I have an 8 speed on the shelf with the 1-1/8th axles, which would be an easy swap into the 310...but can i put a 10 pinion differential in the 8 speed.  If the axles are not quite the right length I can live with that.  Question is if the bull gear teeth will match up???

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Do you have the axles to go with the 10 pinion?  It sounds like you want to use the 8 pinion axles in a 10 pinion differential.  In a #5060 10 pinion, the short axle is 11 1/4"...the long axle is 12".  Service Bulletin #252 talks about changing the 10 for an 8 pinion...going the other way may not even be a problem with your bull gear lining up.  @Aldon was getting into this, and may still have some trannys open.  Maybe he will weigh in here. 

    Did you try chains on the 8 pinion...that might be all you need to do. 

[daveoman1966 3,586]

I ahve the same question, but about my 1976 C-160 Auto.  It has the Sundstrand 90-1140 hydro in it with an 8-pinion differential... 1 1/8" axles.  I ahve a complete 10-pinion diff, with 1 1/8" axles, that I'd like to swap over for the same reason...(one wheel spins with the 8-pinion.)    

If someone...ANYONE... has the answer... 'Will they swap over.?? "  lemme (us) know.

 

 

[pfrederi 17,129]

I know chains would help but they tear up the grass in places where it is still not frozen hard under the snow...That is why I was using the 310 with the fat tires.  When it is frozen hard i use the L107 with turfs and chains to haul away the ashes.

 

I have several axles so I think some combination would be "close enough"

 

May have to get the differential and try it out...worse case I would have a spare for my snow removal fleet....

[Racinbob 10,269]

Now I'm not sure about this and I don't know if it's really been answered. As long as it lines up on the bull gear wouldn't you want the different length axles due to the differential itself sitting more to one side?

[Aldon 4,826]

The limited slip differentials in the GT14 have side plates on the bull gear that are different width than the ones on the standard 8 speeds. They are both different. Meaning both left and right side differ. On the 8 speed these two pieces are same size. 

 

On the GT14 Hydro the axles are 5/8" different in length. I would assume same on c160 but I have not yet disassembled one.

 

i sincerely doubt that 5/8" makes much difference. In fact on one of the GT14's the axles were identical in length at just over 14 inches. I am going by memory but I think they were each 14 1/8".

 

as long as the hub key way engages the woodruff key all should operate fine.

 

axles from all models seem to have similar machined end that the drive gear slides over. Just different finished lengths. 

 

As such using 8 speed axles in hydros seems acceptable. Edit( as long as you have enough clearance between tire and fender) 

 

using limited slip differential in an 8 speed will depend on as Rob indicated whether it will align correctly. 

 

With some minor machining you could use the side pieces from 8 speed on the guts of limited slip differential. I just don't have the tooling currently to do that. Not even a drill press at the moment.

 

i did keep both limited slip assemblies as I do plan to modify to run in 8 speed.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Aldon

[Aldon 4,826]

Here are the end caps or whatever you call them for the limited slip differentials I have. 

[daveoman1966 3,586]

Both of these end caps in ALDON's pic above have a BEARING RACES (8052) which are either Heat-Shrunk-fit or somehow bonded to the differential end caps.  The SHORT end cap (1.875")  (on top) is part # 8051 and the TALLER cap (2.625")  (lower) is part # 8050.  

Here are a few pics showing dims.  End caps 8050 and 8051 can have either the bearing race 8052 as shown or the Roller Bearing 1533 that we are all familiar with.     

[squonk 38,846]

I know everyone here is GA-GA over a trans upgrade but try some loaded 6 X 12 rear tires. More concentrated weight per sq in. of ground contact. They work great for garden plowing. No fuss, no muss, cheap and even a dummy like me can do it with out an engineering degree!   

Edited February 12, 2017 by squonk

[Racinbob 10,269]

You're right Mike but for me I just would like to see if it can be done. I'd actually prefer the 8 pinion over the 10 but this gets brought up fairly often. I wish I had the parts here to check it out.

[pfrederi 17,129]

I keep the fat tires empty and have no weights on the 310-8 as I use her mostly when the ground is soft, I do not want to sink in an leave ruts. 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Paul, I think I have your answer, but to know for sure...somebody is going to have to do this that has those transmissions.  The answer is "yes" you can swap the differentials.  After doing some research with part numbers and schematics and Service Bulletin #252...here is what I find::

This concerns transmissions 6 & 8 speeds from 1967 to 1973.  In going from a 10 pinion differential to an 8 pinion differential, the bulletin has you take the best of the 2 axles (short or long) and procure a matching axle...so you have 2 the same length.  The bulletin also has you change out your 11/44 toothed gear from a 1 piece to a 2 piece.  (the difference being the 11 toothed pinion is not machined the full length in the 10 pinion differential).  It looks like the 8 pinion differentials come with the 2 piece 11/44 toothed gear and the machining goes down all the way.   WHY::  Because in the 10 pinion differential, the bull gear is 3/4" off center to the left.  When you change to the 8 pinion differential, you move the bull gear to the center and if you have the 1 piece 11/44 toothed gear, the bull gear teeth will be hitting the part of the pinion shaft that is not machined.  I think I remember some guys getting around this by suggesting grinding off the teeth on the right side of the bull gear.

    Now to make it simple...if you have an 8 speed transmission with an 8 pinion differential, you should have the 2 piece 11/44 toothed gear.  I don't think you would have to put a 1 piece 11/44 toothed gear in to go to the 10 pinion differential...that machining is already there.  So to go from an 8 pinion to a 10 pinion differential it should go right in.  To be correct, your axles should be 3/4" different.

   There is one issue to consider though (and this might be more pointed towards @daveoman1966.  I think this would work also in the Sundstrand Hydros (like Dave wants to do).  The one thing that bothers me here is if you are trying to do this with one differential that uses the #1533 bearing to hold the carriage and another differential that uses the #111199 bearing.  Paul is also going to have to see what 8 speed he has on the shelf.  I don't know, it may not make a difference either. 

[pfrederi 17,129]

Steve  i appreciate your research efforts.  i have ordered the 10 pinion.  I am pretty sure I recall the 8 speed had 1533 bearings.  It is a 103907.  It will be a bit before I get into it. The heated part of the shop is getting crowded.  Have to outshop the Charger 10 and the Farmall H hydro pump first...

 

Will take pictures and keep all updated.   (If all fails I will have a spare differential for my snow horses)

 

thanks again

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Yes...the 103907 uses the #1533 bearing.