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George Washington

Wheel Horse Value

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AMC RULES

:rolleyes: Looks to be nicely redone too...

a little shot of this, and you'll be all set there.

Image result for vht vinyl dye

 

 

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Sarge

Go look at it again , and take a very bright flashlight along . Inspect the exhaust side of the block and look to see if the fins are plugged up with debris or anything and look very closely at the top most fins on the block itself . With that crazy pipe they are pushing a lot of heat back into the exhaust valve and could have possibly cracked the block . That happened to my '74 and it renders the engine block junk in a hurry . There are very few people that ever take the time every few years to remove the tins and properly clean out the fins on those big block Kohlers to prevent them from plugging up and overheating that engine - which happens pretty often . I'm to your north and that price is pretty high - I've seen low hr examples of the same tractor go a lot cheaper and that aftermarket tiller in my opinion doesn't count , it's sort of a trading stock bonus if you will ..

 

The point about the tins is detonation - it's what is the common cause of destroyed connecting rods in the big block 16's from excessive heat . I always look around the seller's property/land as well - if there are hills and signs of them mowing it on it's side greater than 25* there's a chance it already has a knocking rod which for many is not easy to hear over that thumping big bore single cylinder engine . I've turned wrenches for over 45yrs now so i can hear one a block away and it drives me nuts , sooner or later it lets go and most times takes the block with it . Rebuilds with genuine parts could cost the same as the asking price of the tractor and possibly even more , so always keep that stuff in mind . That series Sundstrand is the toughest one they made but a hot test is always a good idea with any hydro as well as inspecting the oil and making sure it has the proper oil filter . Find an aftermarket filter , or worse , a car type oil filter on that trans and that's a huge red flag - it will bypass a lot of dirt through that pump in a hurry....

 

 

Sarge

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George Washington

UPDATE - alright wheel horse junkies! check this out. I called the guy back yesterday morning and told him I could do $800 cash today (flip the tiller for $200 makes it a $600 C160 in great shape - I can live with that) He said he had a guy coming to look at it at 1:30 but he would let me know if it didnt sell. By 2:15 I'm getting ancy so I texted him and of course the Horse sold. I pouted and the wife consoled me then I told myself that God made plenty of horses and there was one out there for me. Then this morning I get a call from the guy that bought it. He says its too much tractor for him and not enough tiller which is why he bought it. He says his garden is too big and even though he gave the $950 he would gladly take a hit and sell it for $800 with tiller. Now I'm excited but also very apprehensive. The buyer isn't a wheel horse guy, he just needed a tractor with tiller option but still - who knows if he found out something that I don't know.

 

anyway, I guess I'm making the drive this week to do the hydro test and likely buy it - I'm sure this throws up red flags for many of you which is why I'm posting this update - any ideas on what else to look for?

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953 nut
1 hour ago, George Washington said:

I'm excited but also very apprehensive.

A total stranger willing to take a $ 150 hit for you would make me suspicious too. Do the checks @Sarge suggested as well as the hydro test. Good luck.

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Ed Kennell

I would be very suspicious of the new owner also.   Maybe call the original owner and get his version of the sale and his opinion of the new owner.  He may also be willing to fess up to any problems with the tractor since he has sold it.

Also, how did the new owner get your number?

Edited by Ed Kennell
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can whlvr

another thing that could have happened,if he was able to test it was the tiller pushes the tractor a lot,i put my wheelhorse tiller on my 160 and didn't like it,it pushes the tractor ahead,and no matter how you feather the stick it cant be controlled,i know others have used the hydos and liked it but compared to an 8 speed no comparison,just  a thought,but I would think you guys have frost in the ground and it would be hard to test

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jackhammer

my 2 cents -- if something smells fishy it always is

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T-Mo

George,

There are Wheel Horses in your area, if you're patient.  There is one now on your local CL, a C-121 that's more reasonably priced.  As others have mentioned, there is something amiss about the tractor and/or the sellers.

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George Washington
45 minutes ago, T-Mo said:

George,

There are Wheel Horses in your area, if you're patient.  There is one now on your local CL, a C-121 that's more reasonably priced.  As others have mentioned, there is something amiss about the tractor and/or the sellers.

ive seen the 121 - I got my heart set on the 160 but the 121 is definitely cheaper and then there is another 120 not too far from me for 300 - it doesn't run but comes with a plow blade and slightly bigger deck - ive considered buyng both 120's for basically the same price as the 160 but for some reason convinced myself that the 120 was too small. can anyone tell me the major differences between the 160 and 120 other than engine size? I would like one for everything I do which is mowing, hauling, grading my drive, stuff like that

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bmsgaffer
9 minutes ago, George Washington said:

can anyone tell me the major differences between the 160 and 120 other than engine size?

 

Other than engine size, absolutely nothing. Go get the 120's and then spend time searching for your K-341 (16 HP kohler). There are a few things too look out for when shopping for a K-341 from different eras or other brands, but most will be a direct swap. When you blow up the 12 hp, swap in your 16. Voila, C-160 :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Heres what you will find: there is not much that a 16hp kohler can do that a 12hp cant. Especially almost everything you listed there which is drive based, so as long as you have the 8 speed you could do it all with 8hp. The extra 4hp will only make a difference when you are blowing deep snow or running a 48" deck in grass you should have cut the week before. Most of the time you will never notice other than the fact you will use less gas!

 

Go get'um, post some pictures and let us know how much you love them! 

Edited by bmsgaffer
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Ed Kennell

IMO, the 120 will turn a deck up to 42" as well as a 160.    Grading and hauling, no problem for the 120.    The 160 would be slightly better for ground engagement and snow throwing.

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T-Mo

I believe the C-121 in question is an 8 speed.  I didn't see the C-120 so I can't comment on that one.  There is a slight difference in a C-120 and a C-121, basically the placement of the fuel tank.  The C-120 will have the fuel tank above the engine, under the hood, while the C-121 will have it beneath the seat, under the fender deck.  I like the fuel tank underneath the seat myself, but your fuel pump has to be in good working order with the fuel tank there.  But, I do think both the C-120 and C-121 will have fuel pumps.

Pictures of the aforementioned C-121.

 

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I just now noticed it has a couple of horns.....  BTW, the roller is included in the sale.

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George Washington
7 minutes ago, T-Mo said:

I believe the C-121 in question is an 8 speed.  I didn't see the C-120 so I can't comment on that one.  There is a slight difference in a C-120 and a C-121, basically the placement of the fuel tank.  The C-120 will have the fuel tank above the engine, under the hood, while the C-121 will have it beneath the seat, under the fender deck.  I like the fuel tank underneath the seat myself, but your fuel pump has to be in good working order with the fuel tank there.  But, I do think both the C-120 and C-121 will have fuel pumps.

Pictures of the aforementioned C-121.

 

gotcha - that's the 121 ive seen - there is also a C-125 (what is that?). I was mistaken about there being a 120 - it looks like neither the 121 or 125 have hydro and the 160 does - is that considered an advantage? it seems like it would be - im still a little confused on all of that - pic below is the 125 listed - it says it jus needs carb work but I would buy it under the assumption that the engine is shot - would really just be getting it for the plow blade and extra parts and if it runds after some tinkering then that would be a bonus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C125.jpg

Edited by George Washington
posted by mistake
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bmsgaffer

You get a roller too, cool!

 

Looks to be pretty solid. I am pretty sure the belt to the mower is wrong though, it looks too small and there seem to be a few too many twists between PTO and mule pulleys. 

 

I personally like the under-seat fuel tanks as well.

 

Just a note with the C-121 is that it has a shaker-plate mounted engine (just like the black-hoods C-xx5). Some people hate them, I like them. However, they will likely need replacing. You can replace them with solid pieces or go with the rubber mounts from toro ($$$). If you replace the engine you will need one with the shallow oil pan (Usually denoted by an A in the engine number, eg K-341AS). 

 

If she runs strong then you cant go wrong there.

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T-Mo

A C-125 replaced the C-121, and about the only difference with the 8 speeds would be the plastic fender deck and the hood.  These are referred to as the black hood Wheel Horses.  They are also good and I wouldn't be afraid of buying it if the price was good.

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George Washington
10 minutes ago, bmsgaffer said:

You get a roller too, cool!

 

Looks to be pretty solid. I am pretty sure the belt to the mower is wrong though, it looks too small and there seem to be a few too many twists between PTO and mule pulleys. 

 

I personally like the under-seat fuel tanks as well.

 

Just a note with the C-121 is that it has a shaker-plate mounted engine (just like the black-hoods C-xx5). Some people hate them, I like them. However, they will likely need replacing. You can replace them with solid pieces or go with the rubber mounts from toro ($$$). If you replace the engine you will need one with the shallow oil pan (Usually denoted by an A in the engine number, eg K-341AS). 

 

If she runs strong then you cant go wrong there.

why do some hate the shaker plates? - and what is a shaker plate?

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T-Mo
11 minutes ago, bmsgaffer said:

You get a roller too, cool!

 

Looks to be pretty solid. I am pretty sure the belt to the mower is wrong though, it looks too small and there seem to be a few too many twists between PTO and mule pulleys. 

 

I personally like the under-seat fuel tanks as well.

 

Just a note with the C-121 is that it has a shaker-plate mounted engine (just like the black-hoods C-xx5). Some people hate them, I like them. However, they will likely need replacing. You can replace them with solid pieces or go with the rubber mounts from toro ($$$). If you replace the engine you will need one with the shallow oil pan (Usually denoted by an A in the engine number, eg K-341AS). 

 

If she runs strong then you cant go wrong there.

Good point on the engine isolators.  Those do seem to wear out and become dry rotted.

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bmsgaffer
Just now, George Washington said:

why do some hate the shaker plates? - and what is a shaker plate?

 

Some people think it robs power, some people think it shakes more. I think with good isolators it works great. 

 

Instead of having the engine mounted straight to the frame, the engine is on a plate that is mounted on rubber isolators. All older machines were direct mounted, all machines 1985 and newer were direct mounted. :confusion-shrug: I think people didnt see enough benefit for the added cost in manufacturing. 

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T-Mo
5 minutes ago, George Washington said:

why do some hate the shaker plates? - and what is a shaker plate?

The engine is mounted on a plate and is isolated from the frame with rubber isolators.  Back in the '70s most manufacturers were doing this to try and quieten the engines by adding rubber isolators to prevent vibration, therefore some noise.  The problem arises when the rubber wears out and begins to deteriorate.  But you can still buy the isolators from Toro and some have used ones from McMaster Carr as alternatives.

 

Brandon , we seem to be responding at the same time.:)

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George Washington
36 minutes ago, T-Mo said:

The engine is mounted on a plate and is isolated from the frame with rubber isolators.  Back in the '70s most manufacturers were doing this to try and quieten the engines by adding rubber isolators to prevent vibration, therefore some noise.  The problem arises when the rubber wears out and begins to deteriorate.  But you can still buy the isolators from Toro and some have used ones from McMaster Carr as alternatives.

 

Brandon , we seem to be responding at the same time.:)

those actually sound kinda cool - I think I would prefer those - how much are they?

another question about the C-160 - it has hydraulics and it seems to me that would be worth paying more for - am I wrong in assuming this? Is it just a luxury item or does it open the tractor up for more possible uses? The hydraulics on the C-160 seemed to work well and all be in order

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bmsgaffer

As of right now they are about $33 each. :doh:I wish I would have bought them when they were still $25 each!

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George Washington

reposting this because I think it was missed - another question about the C-160 - it has hydraulics and it seems to me that would be worth paying more for - am I wrong in assuming this? Is it just a luxury item or does it open the tractor up for more possible uses? The hydraulics on the C-160 seemed to work well and all be in order

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T-Mo

Hydraulic lift is nice, if you're lifting a front blade, or a moldboard plow, or a snow blower.  But, it's not that hard to manually lift a front blade or a mower deck with manual lift.  Plus, hydraulic lift will add more maintenance woes if the lines, fittings, cylinder, valve or pump start to leak.  It is sort of a luxury item that can be a headache if problem arises, but also can be almost a necessity for certain heavy implements.  How's that for riding the fence? :(

 

Personally I like hydraulic lift, but I also like to use my tractors for more than just mowing or using a front blade.  I like to use them for plow days, etc.

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bmsgaffer

Hydro vs 8 speed is often a personal preference. You can search out lots of competing threads on the matter.

 

Hydro:

Hydro lift is nice, and totally variable drive. It is hand lever controlled, some like it some dont. If using a tiller it can be pushed forward a bit and can be harder to control. 

 

Gear Drives are simpler, and easier for the lay person to redo. They have set speeds and wont be pushed forward for tilling. Hand lift for implements is hard if you have heavy things like tillers and snow blowers. 

 

Here's what I prefer and many others share: Hydro is best for mowing, towing, lifting heavy things. Gear drive is best for single speed projects like tilling and things where you have to maintain certain heights of implements like grading. 

 

Ha @T-Mo, we did it again. :laughing-rolling:

 

I will add one more thing. I would have one of each...

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Ed Kennell

T-Mo and Brandon have pretty much answered all your questions, but I will just add my :twocents-mytwocents:.

 

I have never seen much difference in the shaker mounts and the solid mounted engines.

And I believe WH also found this to  be true and discontinued the design due to the higher  cost and little benefit.

 

The hydro vs 8 speed  is a much discussed hot topic.

My experience... for the snow blowing and plowing that I do which is 4-6 paved driveways that are 100-200' long and a stone road that is 300' long.

Much of the area is confined by buildings, garage doors, and vehicles requiring many changes of direction and lifting of the plow or blower.   

So, for my use, I would not even consider using a gear drive or a manual lift.

If I were clearing a 1/4 mile long drive with no obstructions, a gear drive would work as well.

I believe the snow throwers perform better with less clogging if the auger speed is kept at max RPM and the forward speed is varied to keep the blower housing full of snow.

This can be done very well with a hydro.  Not so easy with a gear drive.

I might add, I have forward/reverse foot controls on all my hydros which allows one hand on the steering wheel and one hand on the lift at all times.

I also see a big advantage in mowing with the hydro and lift as I mow around 30 trees with exposed roots.

The hydro allows me to slow the speed and lift the deck as I approach and mow around the trees.

 

For operating heavy duty ground engagement equipment and pulling or mowing a large field,  I would opt for a gear drive.

The gear drive is less likely to fail and is less expensive to repair or replace.

 

There, you got the whole  99 cent cone :icecream:

 

 

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