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Mastiffman

Newbie Welder here... First project [small one]

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A machinist/drill press vise will greatly help with drilling in a drill press especially when it's clamped/bolted down there are several sizes and configurations, and a milling machine is really a glorified heavy duty drill press that I use at my job, Jeff.

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Another thing on drill presses, it doesn't hurt to run the belt tension just a little loose (if possible). At least it will slip like a clutch instead of putting you in a "critical mass" type of situations. One of my customers has an ancient Rockwell drill press that has an ungodly amount of torque with a 5hp 480volt motor that found its way on board. Scary. 

Mark. 

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Great start on the welding.  When "Butt" welding items thicker than 3/16 leave a small space between them to help with penetration. (use a penny tp space 1/4" thick metal)

 

Consider the JET or Grizzle drill presses. There better than HF but cost less that a Delta, I've had a Grizzle for 25 year and have put it to the test.

 

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All great tips! Thank you. 

 

Yeah on the space thing I thought about that and there was like a 32nd of space but I would do more on more high stress welds but this was cosmetic as the stress is being out on the opposite side from the weld. I will definitely take that under advisement. 

Edited by Mastiffman

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Use the thickness of your wire/rod to gap heavier material - then gap weld it in one or several passes depending upon that thickness range . One of the main welding tests is vertical up gap weld on 3/8"-3/4" plate steel with a 1/8" gap using 6010 rod and a set range of amperage . No more than 1/16" protrusion allowed out the back side and most instructors only allow stringer beads now - last one I did was 14 passes required and  no weave patterns at all and no inclusions (holes in the weldment) are allowed , ever . They generally cut 4-5 strips out and inspect the weld nugget for penetration and such . In structural work , it's one of the hardest tests as it's generally specified in both vertical up as well as overhead full-gap , not fun if you're out of practice and working with an unfamiliar machine .

 

On mig, there are several similar tests that can be found under the AWS web pages - most are vertical up gap welds using either gas or flux core processes . I know it's a stretch for beginners , but setting the bar that high and spending the time to practice makes your welds a lot safer as you will have to learn how the puddle looks versus penetration and quality . General rule after buying your first welder is to burn up at least a spool of wire or 10lb box of rod just to get some practice on scrap - learn to push the limits and burn some holes , it happens to everyone . Those videos I mentioned from Mr. Collier are well worth your time - pay attention to what he says and don't hesitate to watch them more than once - there is a lot to learn here to be a safe welder .

 

Biggest advice I can give anyone - never attempt to weld something that can damage other things or hurt someone if it fails until your either certified or have enough experience to be qualified to do the work . It's no shame to take something to a professional welder - they appreciate people that know they are out of their comfort zone when building something like hitches , tire carriers , bumpers , ect...

 

Sarge

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Well I wasn't able to manage getting some 5/16" x 1.25" or even 1.5" flat stock and I wasn't going to go to 1/4"... Needed to get this job done and I must say that it turned out fine...

 I took my straight angle handle and chopped it up in the appropriate pieces and made my own extension kit angle handle... now I'm ready for the snow were supposed to get over night. IF it comes. haha. Obviously I will need to prep prime and paint everything still though.

 

20170130_153036.jpg

 

20170130_153045.jpg

 

 

New Modded angle handle fitted and installed. The handle deff is fit for comfort and clears both the PTO lever and the PTO pulley and muffler. Helps when you fit as you go. The only thing that is a little  in the way is the locking wire. Also, the new swept forward front end is on the 312-8...

20170130_155456_Burst01.jpg

 

Edited by Mastiffman
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Need to stay a bit more ahead of the weld puddle - that piling up of the bead indicates you're riding too far back in the puddle , just fyi...

Sarge

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Thanks, Which picture? The second one has a second pass on it as I unintentionally ran the 1st bead a bit above the seam. And the bulk of weld at the ends is from tacking it first.

 

I try to make sure that I lead the puddle with the wire to ensure proper penetration and fusion.

 

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On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 9:37 AM, Sarge said:

Need to stay a bit more ahead of the weld puddle - that piling up of the bead indicates you're riding too far back in the puddle , just fyi...

Sarge

 Hey Sarge.

 

 Never hard back from you on this... Was this just a photo anomaly you saw and my explanation was on. Or did you see something else? Thanks.

 

This is not tractor related but welding related... This is a 6kw CCKB June build 1970 Onan generator. it recently developed a crack in the exhaust manifold where it extends outward to the muffler. the old one had a brace on it and the new one didn't. I bumped the muffler when I was moving the 312-8 a few months ago and haven't be able to fix until now. I was going to get an exhaust manifold from @boomers_influence but that didn't work out. So I decided to fix it myself.

 I used my welder with .035 FC wire on the lowest settings. The Coupler to the muffler bead was fine but when I got to fixing the manifold itself, it instantly start burning holes through the thin 20ga metal. Once I was able to determine the best speed of my hand and distance, I had to build up the weld around the area and focus more on the previously welded area than the exhaust metal and that allowed me to build up across the manifold and cover the holes that I burned through. This took a bit of time but was well worth it. I ground the area down, checked for any pits and ran some better beads. Then I was able to set and weld the muffler on. I did create and brace at the bottom as well out of some soft aluminum stripes I had from a previous project. This all worked great! I ran the generator for a bit yesterday a little while after finishing the repair and I'm happy to say that it was a complete success.

 I think that if I plan on attempting welds on thinner material like this I will be getting myself a bottle of Arg/ O2 for the job. According to the chart on the Lincoln welder, I shouldn't have been able to do this, especially as a novice with .035 FC wire. I will play it safe next time. It was a good experience though and a lesson learned.

 

Photo. It's not pretty, I know...

P.S. Is there a way to coat this bare area with something to protect it? Is there such a thing as none melting exhaust paint? Ever instance that I've seen/ heard of was unsuccessful painting.

 

 20170202_151105.jpg

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Yes high temp paint.

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The pic I referred to was the first one of the flat bar weld ....

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=https://s20.postimg.org/v0yey64v1/20170130_153036.jpg&key=6c896dc3bdf4afb35c1c304c1338b0efd85d8a796cc5821eee299a37c7d3b5e9

 

As to welding thinner materials - run the smaller .025" wire and the best upgrade you can do is to add the gas system . Migs aren't really my thing but I do use one occasionally running flux core along with gas for high penetration/fill welding . Most of my work is stick and Tig , just finished welding some hand made bullet hinges on aluminum last night with a new filler rod that was released by Hobart last year - Maxal 4943 , great filler for cast aluminum parts too .

 

Sarge

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Yep. That was from the tack welds at each end. I got all parts down to bare metal last night. Will be etch priming and painting soon. I was curious how people that restore the plow frames get into the locking pin area to prep for painting? Sand blasting? 

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking that I would do for the next round of any thinner metal is get a arg/ co2 tank and I have some .025 wire that came with the welder. 

 

Nice. Wouldn't mind seeing that stuff? how'd that new 4943 work for you?

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The 4943 works excellent but you have to keep in mind it's designed for high silicate alloys - especially cast parts . The flow issue was due to the 1/2" rod stock - alloy unknown and I suspect the stuff is more of the imported garbage being dumped on the US market . If you buy any stainless steel that will be welded - same deal right now as the market is flooded and the stuff is junk - not worth it's weight in scrap . I had to send 35lbs of material back now to a supplier that substituted the imported crap for what I ordered followed up with a phone call - hope they got the message now . The point is - be very wary of what you buy in metals and where you get it . Never assume it's US made and always ask -  the imported metals don't weld properly and can lead to odd failures at the worst times - especially in code work .

It's gotten to the point of I'm buying half of my inventory out of the scrap yards if I can find what I need for material - ordering the rest from local shops when they do their bulk orders and specify US made only .

 

Sarge

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Ah that's a good tip. I will definitely be asking my local dealer and others I go to from now on.

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Looks like you are getting the welding down. Myself? When I weld I really don't care what it looks like. My beads aren't always perfect. But, as long as I get good penetration? I am happy. The welds don't look perfect. But, the part doesn't look broken anymore either :ph34r:. As far as a drill press goes? Get one. I have an older Sears benchtop model that I bought at an auction for $85.00. Best money I ever spent. I am even thinking of replacing the standpipe for a longer one and make it a floor standing model (since my old one crapped out). The one thing? No matter which brand you buy? Is a drill press vise. Saves alot of wear and tear on your fingers and hands. You don't want to be featured in the "Bumps and Bruises" section :wacko:. Keep up the good work. Pretty soon you will be fabbing and fixing every thing in sight :greetings-clappingyellow:.  Good Luck.     Pat

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Drill presses  - older is better in my opinion . I picked up 2 recently , a 1930's Delta DP-220 in very good condition and a 1952 ?? Clausing 18" 1810 model . The Clausing is old enough to be an Acme in reality and even has the original 1hp/3ph Acme ball bearing motor - all 100lbs of it . The little bench model Delta is a stout 110lbs , the Clausing has a huge production t-slot table on it and clocks north of 650lbs - it is an amazing amount of solid iron for sure and took 6 men to get it into the basement here . Both need some minor work , but have adjustments for the head/spindle sleeves so wear can be compensated and keep them true with zero play . Newer junk is some pretty crappy castings of low quality (yes , even Taiwan) and very small spindle shafts . Bearings can be a challenge on some of the older models but they are so overbuilt compared to today's equipment it's no joke that they can literally run for 100+yrs easily . Despite it's age and living in a High School shop in Chicago - the Clausing has less than .003" play in the head , which I've adjusted to below .001" with only .0005" runout in the main spindle shaft . That's on an industrial unit with a very long nose and 6.5" of stroke at the quill . Find anything close to those specs today will cost north of $3,000+ , a good one is about $5,000 .

 

Keep your eyes open and don't discount old equipment , even 3 phase if you don't have it available . Replacement single phase motors can be swapped in as long as you pay close attention to shaft size and rpm's . You won't have as much torque , but at least they will run good enough to do far more work than most here would ever need . Just be prepared to deal with the weight , some of these old machines can be over 1,000lbs easily and require some mechanical help to load and move them .

 

Just for a reference , here's a comparison of a 10yr old Craftsman 17" heavy duty drill press quill shaft alongside the Clausing 1810's shaft - note how the Clausing uses a second heavy roller bearing on top of it's main drive pulley - this thing is so smooth it's disgusting...

 

Clausing vs Craftsman spindle size.jpg

 

Clausing vs Craftsman spindle size 2.jpg

 

I've replaced that spindle shaft twice now in the Craftsman - just from using hole saws and other light duty cutting applications , the thing is just built far too light . Repairing the shaft didn't work - it wasn't properly hardened and once it bent there was a bad soft spot - it just bent again easily in the same spot . The bearings in it are tiny in comparison...you get the idea here ...

 

This was New Year's Eve , 2016 the night we got it home , 2hr drive and $400 lighter - head lowered for transport/safety .

 

Clausing 1810 on trailer 3.jpg

 

Clausing 1810 on trailer 2.jpg

 

Oh , and that belt guard is a 3 piece deal - opens in a clamshell fashion like an antique car , just oozes cool....lol .

 

I'm finishing up the electrical work now - using an electronic variable frequency drive converter to run the 3ph motor off 220v single phase power . I'll post pics when it's all done and running in the shop in the Tools and Equipment section later...

 

 

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Very Cool Sarge! I do remember those in my high school days well. Both the mechanics and wood shops had them!

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Just wanted to give a little update on the Weld of the generator exhaust. I used the "Flame" High temp exhaust paint from the auto parts store and I have to say that it did well. I really only cleaned up the exhaust where I welded. I wiped down the manifold with some rubbing alcohol and then heated up the exhaust a bit by running the genny for about 3 minutes then applied 3 coats of this 1300-2000 degree rated paint...

 

 So cleaning with RA, 3 coats and then I let it cure for a good week before testing it. I ran the genny 7 days later for about 15 minutes or so and the only thing that I noticed was a little bit of vapor coming off of the Exhaust manifold. Other than that it was perfect. No bubbling like I've seen before and it stayed adhered to the manifold. Very happy about that. Looks a little nicer too! ;) Minus the spot of overspray on the vacuum booster! ha ha. Nothing a little RA and Q-tip cant take care of though.

 

20170308_100524.jpg

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Nice job - I've always relied on VHT's header paint but the stuff is picky if you don't stick to the directions , and I mean down to the very letter...

 

Sarge

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Thanks Sarge! I know it's not a show paint job or anything but this is a 47 year old machine in my garage.. Just wanted to get the exhaust manifold where I welded it, protected. But deff looks better than the old dark brown. ha ha.

 

 This was pretty cut and dry of a method. Which I did like. Just warm it up a bit and spray coats every 10 minutes and let cure for a week before use. Can't beat that. ;) 

 

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How far forward did you move the plow?  I.e. What is your distance between the original pin and the new rear pin?  I'm making one of these myself but I can't seem to find the distance on anyones drawings.  Thanks.

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Does this help? Approximately 4-5" move, I probably need to make 1 of these myself but I went a different route 17 years ago I just added to the moldboard mount to "A" frame and didn't have to worry about the angle handle mod, Jeff

520ext.thumb.JPG.49ae442557ceb71dd855d1fda1deb86f.jpeg

Screenshot_20170811-112123.png

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3 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Does this help? Approximately 4-5" move, I probably need to make 1 of these myself but I went a different route 17 years ago I just added to the moldboard mount to "A" frame and didn't have to worry about the angle handle mod, Jeff

520ext.thumb.JPG.49ae442557ceb71dd855d1fda1deb86f.jpeg

Screenshot_20170811-112123.png

That helped with the overall frame of it, but it doesn't have the pin spacing I'm looking for.  I was thinking 4-5" too, maybe I'll just go with 4 1/2" and call that good.  Thanks

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