Basic Vocabulary Questions

[jellyghost 378]

If a tractor is referred to as a Hydro, does that mean hydrostatic transmission or hydraulics?

Is the hydrostatic transmission a type of automatic transmission?

If something has a three point hitch, does it necessarily have hydraulics?

What is the short hand for hydraulics?

 

Thanks!

[JAinVA 4,619]

I think most of the terms are what someone thinks they mean.I will give my thoughts but others may disagree.A hydro transmission has no clutch pedal.Forward and back are controlled by a lever or pedal but not a clutch and a brake pedal.A hydrostat uses  a lever or a pedal to give variable speeds forward and reverse regardless of engine speed.This is not in my mind a true automatic transmission  like used in an automotive application because of its limited speed range.Three point hitches almost always have some sort of hydraulic assist although some garden tractors had a manual lift that would use standard 3pt attachments.

JMHO ,JAinVA

Edited January 9, 2017 by JAinVA

[953 nut 51,630]

    Professor Jim Anderson, AKA @JAinVA has spoken; nothing I could add to that!  

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by 953 nut

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

JAinVA is 100% correct.But he forgot to mention......E equals MC squared.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

A hydrostatic transmission uses pressurized hydraulic fluid and requires a pump to generate that pressure.  Pressure is generated and transmitted by a pump or a series of pumps.  Some manufacturers called their hydrostatic lawn tractors , "automatics", but in reality they were hydrostatic transmissions.   But, the term automatic may not necessary be a hydrostatic transmission.  Case in point, Cub Cadet had gear drive lawn tractors in the 90s that were called AGS, or Automatic Gear System.  They had a forward and reverse pedal, but also had a lever for different gears.  These were just gear drive transmissions, with the idea that you obtain the direction of travel by pressing on the appropriate pedal.  But, the proper speed had go be selected by the lever that was on the fender deck, i.e. first, second, third, etc.  The pedals had to be pressed all the way down and released all at once.  And you had to stop the tractor to place it in a different speed gear, or to change directions.  Most of these tractors had their clutches burned up in them since most owners tried to drive them like a true hydrostatic transmission.

 

On a 3 point system, hydraulics aren't required, but most tractors will have some type of hydraulic system to operate them.  But, some manufacturers used mechanical systems, like Sears, Power King, just to name a couple, to operate the 3 point system.  The 3 point system was design by Ferguson and had a patent on it until the early 50s where no other tractor manufacturer was allowed to copy.  This patent was up for renewal in the early 50s (1952 or 1953 as I recalled) and Ford tried to renew it, but a federal judge said no, it was too important to the ag industry to not to let other manufacturers use it.  A 3 point system has two lower arms and one upper central arm to operate an attachment.  How that system was lifted and lowered was usually done with hydraulics, but as I mentioned, there were some mechanical systems designed to operate the 3 points.

[Ed Kennell 35,740]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydraulic

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automatic

 

                                

[SPINJIM 1,978]

To 'piggyback' on this subject, did all hydraulic transmission WHs also have hydraulic lifts for the deck or plow??? 

Seems like I've seen some that were called 'automatic' or 'hydraulic', but didn't have the hydro lift.

   Still learning.    Jim

[953 nut 51,630]

1 minute ago, SPINJIM said:

did all hydraulic transmission WHs also have hydraulic lifts for the deck or plow???

No, it was an option on most models. Also, the 953/1054 are manual transmission tractors that came standard with a hydraulic lift.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

A lot of garden tractors from the '60s and '70s offered hydraulic lift as an option on gear drive tractors, from Wheel Horse, to John Deere, to Cub Cadet and probably a few others.  Some were factory installed options, like the John Deere round fenders of the '60s, others were dealer installed like the square fender John Deeres of the '70s and most Cub Cadets.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

My thoughts...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...ignorance is bliss.  Just sayin'   

[Ed Kennell 35,740]

I believe the 300 autos with the Eaton 700 did not have hydro lift and the those with the Eaton 1100 did have hydro lift.   Correct me if I am wrong please.

[SPINJIM 1,978]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

No, it was an option on most models. Also, the 953/1054 are manual transmission tractors that came standard with a hydraulic lift.

 

 

My 1076 Automatic has the hydro lift, and I'm sure glad the PO opted for it.  It makes snow plowing a lot easier on the old shoulder joints.  

[953 nut 51,630]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

.ignorance is bliss.

       I'm happy with that!      

[c-series don 7,789]

518-H did not come with hydraulic lift. 

[jellyghost 378]

Thank you!  And thanks SpinJim for asking my follow up question.

I am curious about Hydro lift tractors because my WH does not have that option.  When looking at pictures of tractors for sale, I look for the big lever handle that my tractor uses to lift the deck.  If that lever is present, I assume it doesn't have a Hydro lift.  If missing, I assume it probably has a hydro lift.  Are those assumptions correct?

[Ed Kennell 35,740]

Yes, if the large lift arm is not there, they should have a hyd lift.   

   The hyd lift handle, that just operates the cylinder control valve, is smaller and usually on the same side as the lift arm.

It may be on the side or back of the steering support tower or on the console, but it is usually positioned to be operated with the left hand.

[JackC 616]

Here is pic of the three point hitch on the back of my D-160. The three points are pretty obvious. The adjustable unit at the top point is referred to as the top link. There is a hydraulic piston under the seat that moves the upper arms up or down by a lever on the dash panel. Wheel Horse used a category 0 three point hitch which refers to the size of the arms and pins. There is also category 1, 2, and 3 which are larger. Most small compact tractors have category 1. If you add attachments they need to be the same size category of the unit you have. Three point hitches were available on the larger tractors including the D Series, the C-195 and the GT14. Did I miss any? Some have cleverly installed them on others. The weight of the D-160 along with the set up in the pic makes for a very handy tow vehicle.

 

 

 

 

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

9 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Yes, if the large lift arm is not there, they should have a hyd lift.   

   The hyd lift handle, that just operates the cylinder control valve, is smaller and usually on the same side as the lift arm.

It may be on the side or back of the steering support tower or on the console, but it is usually positioned to be operated with the left hand.

Just to add to Ed's post, there are some electric lift models that won't have the long lift arm on the left side.  The 417-8 comes to mind, and there were others.  These will probably have a toggle switch on the dash to operate the lift system.

 

9 hours ago, JackC said:

Here is pic of the three point hitch on the back of my D-160. The three points are pretty obvious. The adjustable unit at the top point is referred to as the top link. There is a hydraulic piston under the seat that moves the upper arms up or down by a lever on the dash panel. Wheel Horse used a category 0 three point hitch which refers to the size of the arms and pins. There is also category 1, 2, and 3 which are larger. Most small compact tractors have category 1. If you add attachments they need to be the same size category of the unit you have. Three point hitches were available on the larger tractors including the D Series, the C-195 and the GT14. Did I miss any? Some have cleverly installed them on others. The weight of the D-160 along with the set up in the pic makes for a very handy tow vehicle.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Jack.  There are some limited category 1 hitches now.  John Deere has them on their X700 series and it's predecessors, the X4XX and X5X5 series from about 12 years ago.  A category 0 is the most common for garden tractors and uses 5/8 inch diameter pins and has around 20 inches between the lower lift arms.  A catergory 1 uses 3/4 inch diameter pins and has around 27 inches between the lower arms.  There is an ISO (International Standard) for hitches.  Here is the one for lawn and garden tractors.  BTW, there is an ISO for sleeve hitches also.  Also below is that one.

ISO_Three_Point_Hitch.pdf

ISO_One_Point_Tubular_Sleeve_Hitch.pdf

[WheelHorse79 271]

To my recollection, the Ferguson 3 point hitch was first sold on the Ford 9N on American production-model tractors in 1939.  Also, Wheel Horse had hydraulic lifts on tractors before the hydro transmissions were introduced in '65.  They used a separate belt drive hydraulic pump hooked to a cylinder which operated the implement lift.  They were an option available on the Suburbans and later round hoods through '64.