1977 B 100 Automatic won't start

[tractor girl 58 3]

I have a b 100 that I am trying to get started.  It will turn over but will not start.  Just replaced the spark plug with an autolite 216 and picked up a tester at the same time.  The tester appears to have zero spark. I pulled the solonoid and cleaned all the connections, still won't start.  What are acceptable replacement parts for this?  Can I use the ford tractor 12 v solonoid and coil from TSC?  What part would be the most obvious to try first?  As a side note, I also drained all the gas and put fresh in yesterday just in case.. 

[SylvanLakeWH 24,031]

I would start obvious and cheap. You just replaced the gas - Are you sure its got gas at the end of the fuel line? I've spent some time over the years pulling cords on engines where I had forgotten to turn the valve back on or didn't prime it long enough...May just not be getting any gas...

 

I would also double check every connection - may have dislodged something when you changed the plug...

 

Good luck!

[squonk 38,808]

Check to make sure you have 12 volts to the plus side of the coil with the key on and in the cranking position. Get a 12 volt test light or an analog multimeter to check this. Both available at TSC. If you have 12 v there Use either tester and test the Negative terminal of the coil. While cranking the light should blink or the meter needle should swing back and forth. If neither tester does this, the next step is check the points for making and breaking of the coil primary circuit. You need to break the current flow in the coil primary to create the high voltage in the spark plug circuit.

[tractor girl 58 3]

Thanks SylvanLakeWH,  

 

What's the best way to ensure it does have gas at the end of the fuel line?  I will go back and double check all connections.  Tks

Hi squonk

 

I have a multimeter so I will check as suggested.  My problem is trying to diagnose at the engine while sitting in the seat. The safety under the seat is overridden but the clutch has a safety also so I can not figure out how to not be in the seat and diagnose at the same time .. 

I also tried to buy new points and condenser last night but the auto store didn't have a clue how to find what I need.  Are there current standard replacement parts that work on these older models?

[SylvanLakeWH 24,031]

I would disconnect the fuel line at the carb.

[tractor girl 58 3]

learning as I go,,  that sounds like something I can find without difficulty

 

[rmaynard 14,851]

I'm confused. You mentioned that you have no spark, yet you said that you cleaned the connections on the solenoid. The solenoid has nothing to do with spark. The solenoid controls the starter. So, does it turn over?

[clueless 2,898]

5 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

I'm confused. You mentioned that you have no spark, yet you said that you cleaned the connections on the solenoid. The solenoid has nothing to do with spark. The solenoid controls the starter. So, does it turn over?

[953 nut 51,381]

      Troubleshooting a dead engine can be frustrating, but we are here to help. This manual should be helpful.

The ignition points and condenser are a standard Kohler item, not specific to . As others have said, the solenoid has nothing to do with the ignition system, if it is cranking over from the key switch it is fine. Remove the spark plug and with the plug wire connected to it place it on the engine head where you can see it and crank the engine to see if you have spark. Let us know how you do with fuel and spark.

[tractor girl 58 3]

Sorry, that goes back to my learning as I go.  So, note to self, solonoid = starter, nothinh to do with spark..

 

When I turn the key it just churns, it does not catch aka start.  

 

I picked up a coil at TSC that  "looks" just likeine but o know it may be witlred completely different inside, grabbed it just in case it was compatible. 

 

So what should I try next?

Thanks 953 nut, I'll give fuel and spark a shot and report back later .  Appreciate everyone's help !!

[rmaynard 14,851]

The clutch safety switch is only there to prevent you from actuating the starter. So, with help if possible, spray a little starter fluid into the carburetor while cranking the engine. If it starts briefly, you have a fuel delivery problem.

[KC9KAS 4,741]

3 hours ago, tractor girl 58 said:

The tester appears to have zero spark.

She said NO SPARK....

Make sure the points are clean and adjusted correctly. @953 nut posted the manual for your tractor to help with the cleaning/adjusting.

These tractors are fairly simple to fix and get running, but we (me and others) do not always understand what we are trying to troubleshoot from the easy chair.

Pull up the manual(s) and read through them, then read them again while looking at your tractor, THEN read them again while working through the process.

Do not get discouraged, as we will work this out, you will understand what we are trying to say, and we will understand your problem.

Red Square members have fixed many, many tractors over the years from hundreds of miles away.

@tractor girl 58Oh, and  to

[tractor girl 58 3]

Thanks KC9KAS, appreciate the understanding and support..  I'm heading to the garage now with the manual and will report progress as I make it.. 

[rmaynard 14,851]

@KC9KAS You are correct. She did say that her tester showed zero spark. However, I have seen on my own tractors where what I was sure was a "no spark" condition actually turned out to be a no fuel situation. You might say that I am just adding "fuel for thought". 

[tractor girl 58 3]

so one last question before I head out,, what do I need to take off to get at the points?  I can't seem to find that answer in the manual or via google..  

[KC9KAS 4,741]

@rmaynard I just wanted to make sure she used the manual and worked through it.

Also did want her to give up on us and the GT!

 

1 minute ago, tractor girl 58 said:

so one last question before I head out,, what do I need to take off to get at the points?  I can't seem to find that answer in the manual or via google..  

In the front of the engine to the left of carb (looking from the front) and low there is a 3-4" cover. There will be a wire going into the cover. A medium sized straight blade screw-driver to remove 2 machine screws. Unless someone changed them to Phillips head screws!

[Texas Todd 1,024]

[rmaynard 14,851]

And if you have the original stock muffler as pictured above, getting the screws out can be a challenge.

[Texas Todd 1,024]

[Ed Kennell 35,483]

All good advice above,   But when I am trying to start a non running tractor,  my first step is to get it turning over properly, then verify I have a good spark at the spark plug, then try to start it by squirting fuel directly into the carb,  and lastly remove the fuel line at the carburetor and check for a good spurting fuel supply to the carb.     

If the engine isn't turning over properly or if there is no spark at the plug, no amount of fuel delivery  maintenance will start the engine. 

[tractor girl 58 3]

Ok, just finished up and here's the recap.

 

Fuel supply good at carb

 

multimeter  registers 12 volts on positive side of coil with key on 

multimeter registers good resistance through plug / coil wire

multimeter registers on negative side of coil while cranking

 

NO spark when laying spark plug on engine while attached to coil

 

not sure what if anything this indicates but accidentally left the key on from prior step and while looking at the points got a spark from the bottom screw.   

 

couldn't feel my fingers any longer so didn't go any further with the points testing tonight.  

 

will read all the new comments and see what I have missed for testing and will try again..  

[benji756 341]

possible bad spark plug wire?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,474]

6 hours ago, tractor girl 58 said:

Ok, just finished up and here's the recap.

 

multimeter  registers 12 volts on positive side of coil with key on 

multimeter registers good resistance through plug / coil wire

multimeter registers on negative side of coil while cranking

If you have a steady 12 volts in this last one that is your problem.

When the points are open you should have 12 volts.

When the points are closed you should have 0 volts.

If it does not go to 0 volts the points are not closing to make an electrical connection or the contact surfaces are oxidized and not making electrical contact. Clean the contacts with a point file or nail file and then drag a strip of white paper through the closed contacts to clean them.

The points open once for every 2 rotations of the crankshaft so when cranking you should see the coil (-) voltage go from 12 to 0 once every 2 rotations. At cranking speed a test light will also show this changing voltage. Once you get that it should run.

 

Garry

[953 nut 51,381]

20 hours ago, tractor girl 58 said:

You may not see the change in voltage Garry is talking about on a digital multi-meter at cranking speed, try this with the key on and turning it by hand  (PTO engaged will let you turn it from that side). 

[tractor girl 58 3]

thanks all,  I will try the suggestions after work today.  

 

tks