Jump to content
mmmmmdonuts

K301 Points Push Rod Not Moving

Recommended Posts

mmmmmdonuts

I was snowblowing the other day and got about half way through my driveway and all of a sudden my tractor died and I could not get it restarted. The first thing I noticed when it died was that the battery went down rapidly to about 7V but I think that had to do with my external alternator hooked up and not spinning but I could be wrong. I got the tractor back in the shed and could not get it turned over at all. The starter spins and everything seemed to move freely but I was not getting a spark. Changed the spark plug yesterday because it looked pretty gummed up and still nothing. This morning I was diving into the electrical system and got to the points where I was going to reset the timing and I realized that the points plunger does not move when I rotate the flywheel by hand.

 

rps20161218_080409.jpg

 

I guess at this point I don't entirely know what I have to do. Is it an easy/worth it fix or does the whole engine need to come apart? Can I change it to a different type of ignition system? Any other thoughts to try? Repower?

 

Thanks,

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

Is the rod aluminum?   I believe there was a bulletin where they were wearing out and needed to be replaced by steel rods.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
oldredrider

The plunger rod may just be stuck. Remove the points and pull the rod out and check for movement. May just be gummed up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

The rod is definitely looks like aluminum. It is on a 1968 Raider. Alright I will remove the points and see if I can move the rod by hand. What should it be cleaned with? How hard is it to replace or remove and clean up? I will look at the Kohler manual as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
oldredrider

The rod should just pull right out. Clean up with any de-greaser. If it doesnt move freely, try spraying a small amount of cleaner in the hole and working push rod in and out until free.

After looking closely at your pic, maybe your points gap just closed up and is not putting tension on the rod. Try adjusting  your points gap.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

Alright. I removed the points and the entire rod moves in and out very easily and can remove it without a problem. This is what is supposed to happen correct?

 

Edit: I think I understand what you mean. I will try and reattach the points. 

Edited by mmmmmdonuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

While you have the points off...pull the spark plug, put the point shaft back in, keep a finger on the end of the shaft and turn the engine over by hand.  You should feel the plunger move up and down.  This might tell you that your cam shaft is broken or not.   This would be the worst it could be...fixable, but would require an engine tear down. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

I pulled the spark plug and turned the flywheel a few turns while pushing the points shaft in and the points shaft did not move at all. Does that mean the cam shaft is done? How hard is it to tear apart the engine and replace the cam shaft? Easier or harder than a 5060 transmission? Any other thoughts? Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

Couple of checks before tear down.  How long is your push rod??  (should be 1.25")

 

Pull the head (or open up the crankcase breather).  Do the valves go up and down as you turn the engine?

Edited by pfrederi
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

The points shaft measures 1.5" and shaft sticks out about 7/16" out of the engine. When moving the flywheel the cylinders on top move as well fairly freely. rps20161218_152231.jpgrps20161218_152205.jpgrps20161218_152126.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

The valves go up and down yet the plunger doesn't push against your finger as engine turns over??  Very strange... The cam that opertes the point plunger is a machines surface on the cam shaft.  No way for it to "spin" or come loose.  Wear is i suppose possible but hard to believe it would cause a sudden failure

IMG_0043.JPG

Edited by pfrederi
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

I guess my question is how high are the other two valves supposed to go? Here is a video of it.

VID_20161218_151819.mp4

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

Valves are opening enough. If you feel no push against the plunger while turning the engine over I am stumped.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

So I put the points back in and the plunger is in fact moving so I think I am just setting my points wrong. I got the kirk engines ignition thing and I am most likely screwing up the points. While I got the top of the engine off what is the best way to clean it?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi
3 hours ago, mmmmmdonuts said:

I pulled the spark plug and turned the flywheel a few turns while pushing the points shaft in and the points shaft did not move at all. Does that mean the cam shaft is done? How hard is it to tear apart the engine and replace the cam shaft? Easier or harder than a 5060 transmission? Any other thoughts? Thanks. 

I must sayy i do not understand how it didn't move back the but does now!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

I realized what I was doing wrong was setting the points gap. I didn't think it was moving because I was using a timing light to set the timing. The problem I was having was the light never would go off so the points would never close. 

 

Now that I fixed that I believe I can get it working again. I guess I was just having a brain fart today.:-( Must of been the cold of the shed. Thank you for the help. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

I'm thinking that the points shaft really does not move that much and may be hard for a new guy to detect.  No disrespect intended mmmmdonuts.  I know I might have trouble trying to detect that.  The only reason I say this about the cam, is that Erby from France just went thorough this with a Kohler 8 hp...and it turned out he had a broken cam shaft.  I am thinking it would be wise to eliminate that before we got into it.  Looks like we did.  :)

  A credit card used as a scraper will clean the carbon off the valves and block.  A vacuum while doing that is a good idea.

   I just saw your last response...did you notice the "clean" area on your piston...to the left in the 1st picture in post #10.  That would be oil blow by doing that, and you can also see it in your pictures of the the head.  You are looking at bad rings and oil is setting on top once in a while.  It is not as bad as what I just had, but it is a problem and you will want to take care of that in the near future....spring/summer.  Might not take much to take care of early...it does not get better by waiting.  Just so you know.

DSCF8582.JPG

 

 

 

Edited by stevasaurus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts
26 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I'm thinking that the points shaft really does not move that much and may be hard for a new guy to detect.  No disrespect intended mmmmdonuts.  I know I might have trouble trying to detect that. 

I am just learning. Two months ago is the first time I even tried setting points. I must of got part of it right but the timing must of been off or something. I honestly am just enjoying learning more about the tractors even if the happen at the most in oppertune time.

 

30 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I just saw your last response...did you notice the "clean" area on your piston...to the left in the 1st picture in post #10.  That would be oil blow by doing that, and you can also see it in your pictures of the the head.  You are looking at bad rings and oil is setting on top once in a while.  It is not as bad as what I just had, but it is a problem and you will want to take care of that in the near future....spring/summer.  Might not take much to take care of early...it does not get better by waiting.  Just so you know.

Alright. I am going to scrap it off for now but will try and take care of it early spring. Did you have a post showing what you did for the rings? Otherwise I will read in the service manual. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut

One thing to consider is that the points setting also sets your ignition timing. I am attaching the proper way to accomplish this.

Kohler static_timing.pdf

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Just to answer one of your questions above.  Tearing down a Kohler engine is about the same as doing a #5060 trans.  You do need a few special tools, but they are not expensive.  @prondzy did an 8hp Kohler R & R if you want to take a good look and see some very good pictures.  Here is the link.  :)

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mmmmmdonuts

953 Nut,

 

Thanks for the link. That is actually what I was trying to do initially following kirk engines instructions and I think I just screwed it up to the point where the points never completely closed. I ended up with a point gap of around 0.18 when I gapped it last night. Got to get everything back together and see if it works and it is timed correctly.

 

Stevasaurus,


Thanks for that rebuild thread. Definitely will look into it soon depending on what time allows.

Edited by mmmmmdonuts
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
WHNerd

Can someone please tell me the length of the points pushrod?  The pushrod on my K321 appears to me mushroomed on the end.

Thank you!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • BrianKoch
      By BrianKoch
      Looking for a good and flat cover plate for the k301 crankcase. My current one is warped causing oil to leak out.

    • Rick3478
      By Rick3478
      For Sale NOS M12S Short Block, still in the original box.  I bought it pre-emptively when Kohler was phasing out the Magnums.  Thought I would have it on hand if one of mine needed it, or maybe I would find a tractor with a busted rod for cheap.  Neither of those things happened, the darn things just keep running.
       
      Part number 77 522 35, probably built in late '05, it's the combination replacement kit Kohler made to fit WheelHorse or Gravely, machined to bolt directly into the Gravely transaxle, but also has spacers to mount WheelHorse PTO clutch/brake.  Also has a bunch of gaskets and seals packed with it, probably all you need to install it.
       
      And it's heavy, so it's not practical for me to ship.  Buyer arrange to pick up near Elida OH, I can lift it about knee high to help load.
       
      Asking $800 or might consider trade for a good center mount grader blade.
       
       


    • mcfarmall
      By mcfarmall
      Tractor features Kohler 16hp cast iron engine, gently used 42" deck, concrete wheel weights, tire chains, new Chinesium carburetor, fuel lines and filter, new air filter, 2 new fwd/rev cams.  A starter,  some new gaskets, and miscellaneous parts.  New drive belt and all the belt idler assemblies.  Engine runs but smokes.  Great restoration candidate or a spare engine for you pullers out there.  Call, text or email for a private showing.   No offers considered unless made in person.  Buyer responsible for transportation.  Many more pictures to send to interested persons. 


    • Tenday
      By Tenday
      Experts - help please. I’m new to Wheel Horse Tractor life! 
       
      So - I’ve pulled out an inherited tractor and have decided to resurrect her. Unfortunately, no spark :/ 
       
      I’m looking for help on diagnosing no spark. 
       
      model - 417-8 
      engine - Kohler KT17
       
      Done thus far:  (aware that some have no implication on spark.) 
       
      - new ignition switch 
      - new battery 
      - new starter
      - new ignition coil and wires w/ plugs 
      - new condenser 
      - new points 
      - new starter solenoid 
      - bypassed all switches except oil and seat. 

      notes:

      idiot lights removed. 
       
      All fuses tested with Ohms as well as visual inspection  .. 
       
      coil tested w/ ohms as well
       
      all switches bypassed except: 
      -oil switch  ( don’t think it has any implications other than a visual indication for idiot lights. ) 
      -seat switch 
       
      ran a pos from batt direct to pos of coil - nothing; no spark. 
       
       
      Electric is as follows:  
       
      - Starter switch wired to solenoid
      - - solenoid to starter 
      - - solenoid to batt
       
      - one wire from starter switch goes to engine ( I think this is for batt charge / flywheel) 
       
      - I have two yellow wires, which are married up, that go to engine which have constant power; They power coil.  Comes from switch and seat. 

       
       
       
      Help - what the heck am I missing ? 
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • Jeff-C175
×
×
  • Create New...