C-81 Kohler 8hp - engine keeps cutting out

[Erby 15]

We have a 1974 C-81 Wheel Horse tractor which historically runs like a dream & tows anything up to half a tonne.

Unfortunately, with no warning, the engine, while idling, cut out and has since refused to run for more than a minute before stopping.

I fitted a new carburetor 12 months ago.

I have checked the air filter - it was contaminated with fuel

I changed the spark plug, checked the points, checked the fuel in the carb for contamination - all clean

When the engine runs there is a loss of compression through the carb - I removed the cylinder head to check valves, no valves burnt out but the inlet valve (when its open) is easy to turn against the spring pressure 

Could it be the valve spring has lost its tension? Is that my problem?

 

I've checked the throttle and the governor setting, struggling to get the tension right (i read that the C-81 is setup slightly differently)

 

Help!

 

 

[Ed Kennell 35,605]

Does the inlet valve close properly?   I never experienced a spring suddenly losing tension, but the spring keepers have been known to fail causing the valve to fail to close properly.

[slammer302 2,154]

Sounds like the condenser.

[Howie 882]

You are going to be able to turn the valve when it is off the seat. Should not be able to turn it when closed. What is the valve clearance? 

It almost sounds like valve is not seating correctly. I say that because you stated it sounds like loss of compression out the carb.

[roadapples 6,981]

       

[Erby 15]

Thanks for your welcome, and your ideas to solve my problems I have replaced the coil and the condenser ,the engine now runs but has no power,I still have the compression emission through the carburettor,I am now going to remove the inlet valve and inspect the seat.If I should require new valves are they available?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

The C-81 is a 1978 or 1979 model in North America. The engine numbers listed for this model are K181-30700D but so far can not find a parts list. The Kohler manual appears to be TP-2045-B for other close spec numbers.

Removed link to the wrong spec number

Will look some more.

If your engine numbers are different please post them.

 

Garry

 

Adding

We have the TP-2045-B parts manual in our files

The 30700 spec number shiows up on page 13. If you have trouble using this manual tell us what parts you wanted to look up and will dig up the part numbers.

 

Garry 

[Erby 15]

Hi Gary I have corresponded with you before with queries on my Wheel Horse Tractor, way back in 2009.My new problem concerns the valve system and the sequence, when the engine was running I had compression gas coming through the carburettor I removed the cylinder head and inspected the valve seats. I also checked valve clearances  ,following the valve opening sequence I have noted that the inlet valve opens with the piston close to BDC and stays open until the piston is at TDC the exhaust valve appears to open and close correctly any ideas ? the engine no of my tractor is 30452D which you said was probably a replacement  unit

[Ed Kennell 35,605]

Have you cleaned the breather filter?

[JackC 616]

"the engine now runs but has no power, "

 

When that happened to my C-81 it turned out to be the points. They needed to be cleaned / filed and set the way the engine likes it. Factory setting is .020 which should work. I have had enough issues with points on my Kohler engines that I am starting to believe the materials they use for new points is NG.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

On 11/23/2016 at 9:53 AM, Erby said:

Hi Gary I have corresponded with you before with queries on my Wheel Horse Tractor, way back in 2009.My new problem concerns the valve system and the sequence, when the engine was running I had compression gas coming through the carburettor I removed the cylinder head and inspected the valve seats. I also checked valve clearances  ,following the valve opening sequence I have noted that the inlet valve opens with the piston close to BDC and stays open until the piston is at TDC the exhaust valve appears to open and close correctly any ideas ? the engine no of my tractor is 30452D which you said was probably a replacement  unit

Have been thinking about this. Are you sure you are turning the flywheel clockwise? The only way I can see you getting the results your are is to rotate the crankshaft the wrong way.

 

Garry

[Erby 15]

Hi Garry,

This was already suggested (& I did question myself) but unfortunately its not the case. I've taken the engine out and the sump pan off and I can now see the issue - the camshaft is broken  Now sourcing parts

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I opened up Gary's manual link and tried to come up with the cam shaft part number for your K 181 S  30452D.  I come up with a cam shaft part # A-230155-S.  This was on page 31 of that manual...if I did that right.  If that is the right part number, it is also the same part number as the K 181 S 30108D which was used in the states on Wheel Horses from 1964 to 1969 Kohler 8 hp  engines.  It should not be too hard to find your cam shaft.  Let me know if I did that right...please. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

A-230155-S looks correct to me.

 

Garry

[Erby 15]

Hi  guys thanks again for all your help and suggestions I have ordered a camshaft and some engine gaskets I will let you know how I get on when they arrive in a couple of weeks .

[Erby 15]

I have today received a camshaft from Harvey Baker in Kentucky ,looking at the one inside the engine it is different in that the advance mechanism is on the other side of the gear ,and is recessed into the gear, will this one work with my engine ?  

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Is there any way you can post some pictures??  Do you have a copy of the Kohler Manual?    Does the one in your engine look like this one??

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Erby 15]

http://yes this is exactly the same as my engine

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Erby, can you post a picture of the one you got from Kentucky??  I can't seem to find a cam shaft with the ACR on the other side.  The one you got may not work.  I happen to have another one like the one in the picture if you need it...but let's see what you got 1st.    Does the one from Kentucky look like this??

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Erby 15]

Yes, the key difference is on the opposite face to the one you are showing - pictures attached of the camshaft we have bought from Kentucky.

I've also included a picture of the page from the Kohler engine parts manual that shows (yellow highlights) the part we bought. Its based on variation 51 which is our engine.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Erby
edited to add photo of purchase details provided

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Erby...check out this thread.  This is where I got the 2nd picture.  I think it looks like you could use either cam shaft...see what you think.    Maybe @prondzy should add in on this.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Erby 15]

http://yes this is exactly the same as my engine  Hi Stevasaurus thanks for your interest in my dilemma I have read through this detailed procedure but not knowing very much about Kohler Engines and their different types I cannot find any reference to the camshaft . I will remove my camshaft and compare diamentions tomorrow and contact you with what I find.

[prondzy 3,867]

Thanks @stevasaurus, remember the 2 peice camshaft i was telling you about that dad found in his 704 motor, your looking at it, see how on the short shaft side of the cam that erby posted, this is the points lobe that is the points lobe that can be put in 180degrees off and the motor wont run. and seeings how it is from a k161 i dont think i would chance it. let me re read this thread and catch up with whats going on and ill chime back in.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

An older service manual low resoulution

High resolution - You can download just section 12

Camshaft discussed on page 12.2

 

One is automatic spark advance and the later automatic compression release?

Noticed the exhaust tappet is shorter on the ACR engines with non-adjustable tappets.

 

Garry

[oldredrider 2,547]

Garry, good catch on the shorter tappet.  I ALMOST changed out cams on a 953 engine to put in the ACR cam, but my gut said "leave it original". I didn't even consider tappet length,  although it might have been ok with the adjustable valves on the big block.

Or maybe not!