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steelman

Wiring harness/ ignition question

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I have  414-8 and the po put a push button starter switch through the dash. I'm not sure the reason for the switch but I have a wiring harness and ignition switch from a 312-8 that I want to swap and get rid of the push button starter. The 414 is a magnum and doesn't have a coil; the spark plug wire goes to a black switch near the flywheel. From looking at the forums I assume this must be the magneto? I thought that this would be a simple swap as they are very similar tractors and both models are listed on the same wiring diagram. I'm confused with the difference in the harness's and wondering if it will work. Also, will I have to get a different ignition switch or will the switch from the 312 work? 

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Need to think about some things here.  Early 312-8 had battery coil ignitions.  What kind does yours have?  Do you have the solenoid for it??

 

.  If the PO of the 414 did rewiring you need to carefully look over everything as he may have made other changes.  Is the starter solenoid still there?.  what are the terminals on teh igntion switch.  You should have   M (Mag) A (acc)  R Regulator B battery  S  Starter  Caution is needed as if you apply voltage to the M terminal and wire you will fry your magneto.

 

May be his solenoid died and he went with a push button if so all you have to do is wire in the solenoid to the battery and starter motor (heavy wires) and run a 14ga from the S ignition terminate to the solenoid.  No need to swap out a wiring harness.

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Yes, the 312 had a coil and solenoid. The 414 has a solenoid too. I'm looking at the ignition and it does have an M on it. The ignition off of the 414 has a part number on it 103991, where the 312 is 103990. These two tractors are only a year apart or so but coil versus magneto has me confused. Would the solenoid be the same for the two?   

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4 minutes ago, steelman said:

solenoid be the same for the two?

The solenoid is the same, these two drawings will show you what changed. First is the 312, second the 414. These are generic drawings, but will show some of the changes. The safety switches are all wired differently too. On Mag. they ground out the ignition, on battery ignition they interrupt the power to the coil.

battery ignition tractor-wiring.jpg

Mag. ignition tractor-wiring.jpg

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Thanks for your help, this This seems much simpler than the wiring diagram. I have noticed that the ignition switch that is on the 414 has a sixth prong with "3" on it. A single black wire is separate from the plug and ties into the harness. Is this a safety switch of some kind? 

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11 minutes ago, steelman said:

 Is this a safety switch of some kind?

The black wire is connected to the safety switches and it is what grounds out the magnito to kill the engine.

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Thanks for your help! I was somewhat intimated but your diagram made it much simpler. 

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The ignition switches are not interchangeable.  Installing a solenoid and keeping the original 414 switch would seem to me to be the most straightforward option.

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On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 4:55 PM, 953 nut said:

The solenoid is the same, these two drawings will show you what changed. First is the 312, second the 414. These are generic drawings, but will show some of the changes. The safety switches are all wired differently too. On Mag. they ground out the ignition, on battery ignition they interrupt the power to the coil.

 

 

 

So, based on your diagram, is the battery recharged from the rectifier THROUGH the ignition switch?

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4 minutes ago, FatJackDurham said:

 

So, based on your diagram, is the battery recharged from the rectifier THROUGH the ignition switch?

That is correct, the "B" and "R" terminals are connected internally when the switch is in the on position.

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If I may add a question to this thread... My 1982 C85 runs great (knock on wood) with no electrical problems but I want to rewire this winter due to a lot of fairly corroded connections I'm seeing.  As I'm disassembling things I noted the rectifier red wire is jumped to one of the stator wires at the plug connector...like I said, it's been running fine like this, I'm just curious if this is correct because the wiring diagram is not exactly clear on that. Also how does that work given the stator puts out AC voltage?

Thanks

 

 

IMG_3923.JPG

imgrectifier.jpg

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Don't know why it works but it does.

Even the larger finned regulators with 3 terminals have one of the AC terminals connected internally to the DC+ output. I discovered this on one that had the correct AC terminal rusted right off. Just tied that stator wire to the DC+ and has worked for years.

 

I believe SOI explained why it works but can't find it.

 

Garry

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Garry is correct about the internal wiring connection in the R/R. What you have is an "external" connection to compensate for a partially incapacitated regulator. "Red neck engineering" that works.

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Thanks for the responses guys, I guess it's one of those things you just have to accept without know why..It does work after all..

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On 1/16/2017 at 0:28 PM, gwest_ca said:

I believe SOI explained why it works but can't find it.

If I recall correctly it was a method of getting one rectifier to do the work of two. I think SOI said the jumper would pass half a cycle and the other half would go through the rectifier. Some of what SOI tells us I completely understand, others I just have to take on faith.   :confusion-confused:

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