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Bowdoinham Dan

Troubleshooting: Dead Raider 10

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Bowdoinham Dan

I need a little help troubleshooting.  I have a Raider 10 that just up and died in the middle of a tilling job.  It now sits in the middle of my field with a tarp over it :-(.

 

I initially started it yesterday after it sat all summer.  It wouldn't turn over at first, so I charged the battery for 4 hours and afterwards it started without a problem.  It ran for about 10 minutes until running out of gas (whoops).  I filled the tank, started it again, and worked it out in the pasture with the tiller attachment for about 45 minutes.  Then it died.  The engine just shut off.  I turned the key and got nothing, not even a click or an attempt to turn over.  I assumed this was a dead battery, so I went to home depot and bought a new one.  I installed it just like the old one (see photo).  I cleaned the terminal cables with steel wool.  Still nothing. Totally dead. 

 

Any ideas as to what to do/what happened?

IMG_2707.png

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Elkskin's mower junkyard
10 minutes ago, Bowdoinham Dan said:

I need a little help troubleshooting.  I have a Raider 10 that just up and died in the middle of a tilling job.  It now sits in the middle of my field with a tarp over it :-(.

 

I initially started it yesterday after it sat all summer.  It wouldn't turn over at first, so I charged the battery for 4 hours and afterwards it started without a problem.  It ran for about 10 minutes until running out of gas (whoops).  I filled the tank, started it again, and worked it out in the pasture with the tiller attachment for about 45 minutes.  Then it died.  The engine just shut off.  I turned the key and got nothing, not even a click or an attempt to turn over.  I assumed this was a dead battery, so I went to home depot and bought a new one.  I installed it just like the old one (see photo).  I cleaned the terminal cables with steel wool.  Still nothing. Totally dead. 

 

Any ideas as to what to do/what happened?

IMG_2707.png

look for fuse and check it

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woodchuckfarmer

Looks like you should change your battery cable ends. They look kind of corroded to me.

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squonk

THOSE CABLES ARE SHOT!!!

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953 nut

See if you have 12 volts at the ignition coil "+" presuming it is a battery ignition system. Take a set of jumper cables and go directly from the battery to the starter and "-" to ground eliminating the present cables and switch; if it cranks over you can drive it to the barn.

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KC9KAS
20 minutes ago, squonk said:

THOSE CABLES ARE SHOT!!!

If you are looking for an argument, you need to pick another subject! :ROTF:

I agree totally!

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pfrederi

What is model number.  Raider 10s came with Tecumsehs or Kohlers depending on the year  Wiring changed over time also.  May not be any fuses.

 

EDIT:  Early Raiders starters directly wired through ignition switch.  Later had solenoids.  Really need to know what we are working on here.

Edited by pfrederi
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Bowdoinham Dan

The engine is a Kohler.  Model number I'm not quite sure.  It appears to be rubbed off on the plate.

 

Will try the jumper cable trick that was suggested a few comments back.

 

Anyone know where I can find a step-by-step on how to replace battery cables?  never done it before. 

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953 nut

The cables you want will look like these.

Image result for battery cable

Just measure the ones you have and buy new ones the same (or close to) and replace them one at a time. Use a wire brush to clean the contacts and be sure the bolts tighten well, if not replace them too.

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Retired Wrencher

Bowdoinham    Change them one at a time can not go wrong there. and if you have a drill look for a wire wheel to clean all connections.   Get them shinny.This very important. Take your time do one wire at a time. it will fall into place for you.

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Bowdoinham Dan

Thanks all, I'll give that a shot and report back!

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prondzy

Did your ammeter become disconnected? This would do exactly what your describing. There should be 2 spade terminals on the backside of the meter in your console.

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classicdmax

I made my own cables as to not have any excess slack. I believe I used 2ga battery cable with copper eye ends. Soldered the ends to cable using a mini butane torch and wrapped with color coordinated heat shrink tubing 

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Bowdoinham Dan

Update:

 

I replaced the battery, battery cables, spark plug, fuse, and still nothing.  I put the key in and turn it and it doesn't even turn over, not a sound!  Recall that this tractor died in the middle of a job.  Just stopped running.

 

I'm interested in investigating a disconnected ammeter as Prondzy described, though I have no idea what the ammeter looks like.  

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classicdmax

Try jumping the starter solenoid by crossing the two posts with a screw driver or wrench, see then if you can get it to turn over. Maybe solenoid is no good 

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Bowdoinham Dan

So here's a picture of the back of the ammeter.  I found that the black wire is disconnected.  But I'm not sure where it's supposed to go.  Anyone know? 

IMG_2905.jpg

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pfrederi

Both wires looked hooked up to me.  Put a jumper across the two terminals

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Bowdoinham Dan

The black wire is disconnected at the other end.

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pfrederi

one wire should go to the big terminal on the solenoid (battery side) the other to the B terminal on the ignition switch

 

(did we ever decide if you have a solenoid  some raiders had teh ignition switch handle the load.

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Bowdoinham Dan

It's a K241S engine...I think the S signifies an electric start engine.  There are wiring diagram photos in the service manual, but I don't know if I have a 25 Amp or a 30Amp battery charging system.  Diagrams are different.  How can I tell?

 

NOTE: I'm a super novice with this stuff.  No background in engine repair whatsoever.  This is my "learning" tractor.

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chip61

did the wire break at the other end, or is there a terminal on it? 

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gwest_ca

1972 was the first year for the Raider 10 to use a Kohler engine. There is a tractor wiring diagram in the operator manual.

Here is an illustrated parts list

Garry

 

Adding

The tractor's ID plate may be under the dash housing on the flat vertical panel. Should have the model number and serial number on it. With those numbers we can make sure you have the correct manuals. I'm thinking you charging system will be 10 amp or 15 amp.

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Bowdoinham Dan

Confirmed--It's a 15Amp charging system (diagram attached).  Now I just need to go find out where the black wire is supposed to go: solenoid or switch.  There's isn't a terminal hanging off it.  It looks like it pulled away from a junction that was used to repair it at one point. 

 

Photo on 11-14-16 at 3.33 AM.jpg

Edited by Bowdoinham Dan
posted wrong photo
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pfrederi

All the electricity to run your tractor goes from the battery to the big terminal on the solenoid.  From there it goes into the small wire also hooked to that terminal then through eh ammeter to the battery terminal of the ignition switch.  then depending on the position of the switch it goes on to the ignition system (coil).  Trace that path and see where you are disconnected.  any break in that path and tractor will not run

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Bowdoinham Dan

Fixed!!!!

 

An ammeter wire was disconnected from the solenoid, so I bought a $.44 wire terminal and reconnected.  Running fine now.  Thank you everyone, I learned a lot about my tractor :-)

IMG_2927.m4v

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