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mmmmmdonuts

Electrical upgrades voltmeter and external alternator

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mmmmmdonuts

Had some time today to do some work and also finish a project I have been wanting to finish for a while. Had three goals to accomplish:

 

1) Finish installing the external alternator

2) Install a voltmeter

3) Add some new wiring as needed

 

When I first got the tractor there was an alternator sitting on the side of the tractor, but it was never wired up. It was an old si10/si12 three wire alternator which is mounted to the engine with a couple of cross bars that adjust. I know it is overkill for this size tractor and lawn battery but it was already there so I figured I use it. I took a picture of the top and final configuration with a belt. So to wire up the three wire alternator here is what I did. 

 

1) The red wire out of the terminal is the battery sense voltage terminal. Since I don't have long electrical wires I just hooked it up to the stud in the back where the main wire goes to charge the battery. 

2) I then used a 6 gauge wire and went to the back of the alternator and to the post on the solenoid where the battery is connected. I fused it with an 80amp fuse which you can see in the picture. 

3) The last wire to hook it up is the black wire in the terminal. This wire is for exciting the alternator. You MUST place one of three items in line with this. You place either a 10ohm 10 watt resistor, a lamp, or a diode with this wire. I opted to use a diode. For the smaller SI10 alternators you can use a 1A-3A diode, but for the larger models I believe you need to be 5A or higher diode. I put the diode in with the cathode (the side with the line) facing the alternator along with a 10A fuse in line as well. This wire goes to the ignition switch marked IGN.

 

The only thing thing that is not ideal is that it only runs when the PTO is engaged. Since this is normally how I am using the tractor it is not a problem. The alternator is on an adjustable slide so I can mount it either to the inner or outer pulley. Typically it is mounted to the outer pulley. I can always just remove the PTO belt when not in use if I am carting stuff around the lawn, but since the alternator is so over-sized all I usually need to do is run the PTO for a few minutes and the battery is completely charged.

 

IMG_20161004_194359.jpg

 

IMG_20161004_194346.jpgIMG_20161008_145524.jpg

 

The next project I was trying to accomplish was install a voltmeter. I got this voltmeter on amazon for $20 or so and I mounted it underneath the hood, by drilling two holes from the inside, and just bolted it underneath. I connected the positive terminal to the ACC on the ignition switch (fused with 5A) because I don't want the voltmeter to kill my battery when the tractor is not running. The meter came with a backlight as well and I spliced that into my into headlight switch which you can see on in the picture, so the light only comes on when the headlights are on. 

 

IMG_20161008_145542.jpg

 

The last thing I did for the day was clean up some of my wiring and replace some of the old wires. I went to walmart and bought a couple of 6 gauge wire with lugs already on them and replaced the battery to the solenoid, the ground wire and added the wire to the alternator. The connections were getting poor so by replacing them I hope to have a much easier time starting it this winter with the snowblower. 

 

 

IMG_20161008_145600.jpg

If anyone has any questions I would be glad to help. 

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Aldon

I like it. Pragmatic and functional!

 

Did you remove the magnets from flywheel?

 

I read somewhere that external alternator saps about 1-1.5 HP.

 

Any truth to it? Although I'm not sure it would be noticeable.

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mmmmmdonuts

I didn't remove the magnets from the flywheel. I haven't actually taken a look to see if there are magnets are there or not. The rectifier/regulator that comes with the tractor is still mounted underneath where the steering column is but there are no wires to it nor are there any spare wires so I don't what happened. 

 

The external alternator should be taking 1-2hp depending on how efficient it is. I think the alternator has a 55 amp output which at about 13-14v output so it is right around 1hp out (745w is 1hp). Most alternators are 55%-70% efficient.

 

I got the 12hp k301 and I can't imagine a problem when it is mowing. The true test comes this winter though with the snowblower, when I will need all the HP I can get. 

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953 nut
10 hours ago, mmmmmdonuts said:

I know it is overkill for this size tractor and lawn battery

As long as you keep an eye on the electrolyte level you should be OK. Have you given any thought to installing a switch in the #6 wire to pick up the lost power while snow blowing?     :handgestures-thumbupright:

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mmmmmdonuts
1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

As long as you keep an eye on the electrolyte level you should be OK. Have you given any thought to installing a switch in the #6 wire to pick up the lost power while snow blowing?     :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Since it is a 3 wire alternator, I believe I could put a switch to the field wire that excites that alternator to effectively kill the output of the alternator which would greatly reduce the size of the switch / relay necessary since it doesn't carry much current.

 

I was thinking about this last night though and I don't think it is completely necessary because the alternator should only in theory need to run for a few minutes to completely charge the battery. Once the battery is completely charged the alternator load should effectively go to almost nothing other than spinning the cooling fan on the alternator and therefore the amount of HP lost would be negligible.

 

The only load I currently have other than the ignition coil is some LED lights and the voltmeter that draw hardly anything. Eventually I would like to put a winch on the tractor which could significantly change things but I wouldn't be mowing or snowblowing when using it.

 

As far as performance goes. I have a 2.5" pulley on the alternator going to the 3.5" pulley on the PTO (1.4 to 1 ratio) which should be able to put out around 50A or so if needed at 3000rpm (4200 at alternator). At idle speeds around 1200rpm (1680rpm at alternator) it should be able to put out 10A-20A.

 

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gwest_ca

With the field powered by the IGN terminal it should try to charge when starting. Hook it to the ACC terminal so it is powered only in the RUN postion.

 

Garry

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mmmmmdonuts

Thanks Garry.  I made that modification today. I can see how that's a problem when trying to start. Don't want any additional load especially since it is controlled by the PTO anyway. 

 

Took it out mowing today and it seemed to work well. Voltage according to the voltmeter was somewhere between 13V-14V. Mower didn't bog down at all. 

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mmmmmdonuts

Did two upgrades over the weekend. 

 

1) Got the Kirk engines Transgender II electronic ignition and replace the coil with a nice Bosch coil, spark plug and wires and new points. Almost couldn't believe how much nicer it starts and sounds. I really didn't want to have any winter starting/running blues. 

 

2) Got some new LED clearance lights off of Amazon and put them on the rear end. Looks very nice and bright. 

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VT85Q0G/ref=pd_aw_sim_263_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8KC4EP5H48BPGV0NTGDH

 

 

rps20161026_090714.jpg

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953 nut
10 hours ago, mmmmmdonuts said:

Transgender II electronic ignition

Hay; this a nice family friendly site here!  Didn't you mean to say transistor electronic ignition?       :hide:

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mmmmmdonuts

:-( oops.  I meant to say trandenser. That's what Kirk calls it on his site. 

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elcamino/wheelhorse

I know I am coming in late to this thread . My question is why put a alternator on a :wh: ?  Just trying to learn more. 

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JAinVA

Jim,

 I'm with you.I have a repowered C101 and the R&R is toast.The K series need voltage to keep running but for now I just keep the battery charged.I would like to know the advantage of an external alternator.

I would think that if you needed this upgrade a GM single wire unit would be prefered

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mmmmmdonuts

The reason I did the alternator was for three reasons.

1) The charging circuit was fried

2) The alternator was free and I had it laying around and there was mounting brackets that were already partially there.

3) The main reason is because I plan on adding a winch (also free and laying around) and the alternator would help recharge the battery quickly during cycling. I would be afraid the normal 15 amp charger wouldn't keep up. 

 

It seems to have held up and been reliable thus far. 

Edited by mmmmmdonuts
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JAinVA

Thanks for the reply.I am all for free.I have several electric winches and they need many amps at full draw.If you use a GT sized battery and have anything bigger than a 1000 lb winch you may melt the battery terminals.Its always worth a try but I have melted terminals on bigger batteries with an 8000 lb Ramsey.Luck JAinVA 

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mmmmmdonuts

Thanks for the advice. I know the Raider came originally with a 22NF battery, and a group 51 and group 55 should fit. I may consider upgrading the battery to the automotive on in the future, depending on when my next tractor battery bites the dust and do some swapping. I do worry about the alternator and the massive amount of current it can make up to a small little tractor battery and the battery heating up.

 

I can't believe that you got the battery terminals to melt. It is a Dayton 2500lb winch. Right now it has jumper cables as the main power ends on it and an old drill acts as the switch, but I am planning on upgrading the wiring on it and possibly the steel cable. Not to get to far off topic but I was thinking of a couple of different options on where to mount it. Any thoughts based on past experiences? In the past I have mainly seen them dedicated.

 

1) Is it better in general to have it in the front or the rear of the tractor?

2) Mount the winch to a receiver hitch and make it portable and use quick connect lugs to move it between my truck, other tractor and this one.

3) Make either just a dedicated hitch platform in the front of the tractor tied to the frame or keep it portable with a receiver to the front of the frame. The only issue I see with the front is I use this tractor as a snowblower as well in the winter.

 

It won't probably be until the spring/summer I will work on it mainly due to the cold, but was just thinking ahead.

 

Thoughts? Thank you.

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JAinVA

I actually did melt the terminal on an automotive battery with an 8000lb Ramsey winch.I had gone to PA to pick a non-running JD crawler which weighed over 6000lbs.The winch was mounted to the front rail of my Hudson equipment trailer.Having done this a few times before I took 3 fully charged automotive batteries with me.When the dozer was in position on the trailer all 3 were fully drained or damaged. That winch is now mounted on a 7ft grader box and I use it on any tractor I have that is equipped with a cat1 3point.One of the pluses of it being on the grader box besides the ability to use it on multiple tractors is when winching the grader box can be butted to a stump or tree to anchor the winch.

This was said to give context to my thoughts on a WH mount.If you are going to use the winch to get the tractor unstuck(self recovery) then a front mount based on the tach-matic will be fine and easily moved from one machine to another.If you are using the winch to move another object then other things come into play.How will you anchor the winch equipped tractor?You could theoretically max out the winches capacity so the mount would have to be more robust than for self recovery.If you use the winch to say drag logs over great distances  then be aware that even with a large battery and alternator setup you may not replenish the battery charge fast enough.I found this out many years ago when 4wheeling the local powerlines.

Edited by JAinVA

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elcamino/wheelhorse

@JAinVA Ok here is a question , I have a 2500 lb winch I picked up from H. Frt on the cheap. I plan to mount to the front of the 416-8 to lift and lower the snow/dirt blade. You think I will have any problems or should I go with an electric actuator mounted to the side of the tractor like the hydraulic cylinder that was mounted to the frame you picked up from me.

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JAinVA

Jim,

 

You should be just fine with your setup.The charging sytem on a 416 should be more than adequate for that winch size in that application. When I first got my c120 I built a Johnny bucket for it to move dirt.I had no problem with lift or charging.Later I used the same setup with a Case GT blade like what Tigman has.That blade was twice as heavy as a WH blade.Again no problems.At the time I was using a Superwinch 1000lb winch.The manual switch gave out so I stopped using it.The actuator would give downward pressure but if you have the HF in hand go for it.I have one and the missus can be seen using it to load the 312a if you remember the post.It is a good winch but I feel it's capacity is overated.If I can be of any help on this PM me.I didn't say in the our last PM but the clown you cited is what set me off.Luck,JimAnderson

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elcamino/wheelhorse

I figured you had enough of the person mention. Enough of that I need to figure out the mounting for the winch also want to add weigh up front when needed. As Val said in "Tremors" I got me a plan , but Empress is back on the chair and lounge chair pile in the back yard. I guess I better start working on the pile one of these days.

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JAinVA

Jim,

 

That is what spring is for.At our age it can wait a while longer.

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mmmmmdonuts

Thanks for the advice. I guess I got to figure out what I am truly going to use it for and then go from there. That's probably the main reason it isn't mounted yet.

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