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Toro wheel horse questions

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shallowwatersailor

This past Spring one of my neighbors was in need of a new lawn mower tractor. In my neighborhood, we are all on 2+ acre lots. He knew about my herd and asked if I would like to sell one. I offered him my C-145A with a 48" deck. He needed to replace a Poulan with a 40-42" (?) deck. First words were how tight does it turn? "Left and Right", I said. He said that he would drop over to see it.

 

Two weeks later he shows up at 8:00 am and wants to see it! My collection exceeds my storage so unfortunately it is under my carport and could use a bath. He looks at it and I offer it to him for what I paid. He's too worried about parts for it so passes. A week later I see a U-Haul trailer in his driveway along with a "little" Husqvarna from HD. Can we say K-46 transaxle? ;)

 

I haven't asked him about it as I am waiting for the tech questions next year. I will say this, my next door neighbor has an older Murray gear tractor with a 38" deck. In seven seasons, I have replaced the carb for him and this year diagnosed need of a new battery. The battery was interesting as he bought a new one from an autoparts store that was bad from the factory! He will probably keep using it until the wheels fall off.

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elcamino/wheelhorse

I have a question that may be a little :text-offtopic: but here goes for all who have more knowledge than me. Are there any manufactures that produce the small garden tractors currently ? I know JD produces and Simplicity produce something. I am not in the market for a tractor just wondering.

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WVHillbilly520H
3 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I have a question that may be a little :text-offtopic: but here goes for all who have more knowledge than me. Are there any manufactures that produce the small garden tractors currently ? I know JD produces and Simplicity produce something. I am not in the market for a tractor just wondering.

The CUB CADET XT3 only at a certified CUB dealer not H.D. or TSC ect, then of course the new wanna be Craftsman and Husqvarna "garden" tractors ,Sears and H.D./Lowe's sell Craftsman/Agri-fab,Brinley Hardy Blue Hawk ect "ground engaging" attachments and accessories(rear blades, box scrapers,rock/root rake,disc,mold board plow,culivators,sun shades,aerators, rollers ect), Jeff.

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bds1984

I hate to say this, but in a way I am glad many people have a throw-away mentality.  Most of us on here should be because that's how myself and many others here have picked up our beloved machines for free or next to nothing!

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T-Mo
19 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I have a question that may be a little :text-offtopic: but here goes for all who have more knowledge than me. Are there any manufactures that produce the small garden tractors currently ? I know JD produces and Simplicity produce something. I am not in the market for a tractor just wondering.

John Deere makes all of their lawn and garden tractors.  The less expensive ones, the LA series, are made in their plant in Tennessee, while their zero turns and all of their X Series are made in Horicon, Wisconsin.  They make the frames, decks, sheet metal, etc.  Engines and transmissions, of course, are from Briggs, Kohler, Kawasaki, Yanmar, Tuff Torq, etc.

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dcrage

Has Snapper abandened the L & G tractor market. I know they were putting out garden tractors for several years post Toro stopping WH production. Snapper never seemed to be a big player here in MO. 

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BESTDOGEVER

I  think what we have uncovered here is something that we all know deep down in our hearts and that is we as a group are all dinosaurs living in a world that sees no value in high quality simple design and would prefer to use cheap junk that is shiny and new just because the ad agencies tell them to. That's okay with me though, I'll take my old horses and put in the sweat equity to keep them running for as long as I can 

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Adam Bish
On 9/28/2016 at 7:15 AM, Tonyp said:

Let me chime in,the newer TORO Wheel  Horse Classic 315-8 does not just resemble the earlier series, they ARE indeed a newer manufacture of the previous 300 Series. I  own a 310-8 , a C-81 and a Toro / Wheel Horse  315-8, they are the exact same tractor frame and body, They placed a Command Series  Kohler motor on the 315-8 and some added safety items but at the end of the day it's just a re-issue of the 300 series.  It is not just similar ,it is not  almost the same, it doesn't just look the same, it is indeed the 300 Series manufactured again for a short period, I believe 2002 to 2006.   Toro should never have stopped this Classic 300 Series Wheel Horse manufacturing line as the markets are now void of anything close to the hi quality and the ruggedness of this Garden Tractor.  It is the real deal.  Had they left the TORO name off the hood and fender  stickers, the world would see and recognize a 300 Series Wheel Horse. 

 

As stated above, ALL of the C Series , 300,400 , 500 and Toro/Wheel Horse  Classic 315-8 Series attachments that use the Attach-A-Matic  system can be used with any and all of the Tractors. 

 

Maybe someone at Toro should take a tour of the  box store lawn tractors and also visit the John Deere dealer so they can get an idea of what is now totally missing from the market . Even JD  is no longer making a similar machine unless you get into the 500 series. I guarantee that home owners with larger lots and other chores other than cutting grass who pay   $3000 for a machine that will maybe last  6 to 8 years will think twice  about doing that again after it falls apart.  

 

You put a REAL Garden Tractor built on a massive  frame next to anything out there in the BOX stores and it is no longer about money. 

 

It appears that the corporate plan these days, including Toro and JD,  is to only build  lawn tractors that last 5 to 7 years. 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's you who should stop in your local Deere dealer and take a look around. Any of the current X series 3/5/7 will last 20+ years if cared for. I have an X485 with over 4k hours on it. Deere offers box store junk because the people demand it, the usual something for nothing crowd. You get exactly what you pay for . Zero turns have definitely cut.into the true GT segment, but those that still want a tractor, still can buy one. Deere and Simplicity are the only two left building a real tractor. While things are not built like they were 30 years ago, there are still exc. offerings out there if you want to pay for them. I love all garden tractors, but I grew up in a family owned deere dealership. Although deere was not the first to offer a garden tractor, they are the only one left whom has not been bought/sold out. I believe it is because the offer we of best equipment available, that holds maximum resale value. Again just my 2 cents.

3 hours ago, dcrage said:

Has Snapper abandened the L & G tractor market. I know they were putting out garden tractors for several years post Toro stopping WH production. Snapper never seemed to be a big player here in MO. 

Briggs owns both snapper and Simplicity now. Yes you can still buy a snaplicity.

On 9/29/2016 at 7:48 AM, Tonyp said:

Whoever decided to place lower cost LAWN Tractors in the box stores struck gold for the manufacturers but not for the consumer. People think they are buying a very hi quality machine for the money, it looks good , has a so called hi HP strong motor but at the end of the day, regardless of the brand name, they are disposable and in many cases  NON fixable . This era of corporate "executive" planning closed the door on the garden tractors.  I am sure we all know someone who spent good money, not cheap, for a box store  lawn tractor and within a few short years they had to replace it.  Just look around as we are driving each day, the yards are full of them parked with flat tires and tall grass around them.  They are worth only their  weight in metal. 

 

nobody cares, they bought it on credit and made small monthly payments to a 20% credit card over 5 or 6 years ! They are not even paying attention.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm too old, but when  I came home with a new Wheel Horse ( 1975 and 1987)  and even the two I recently purchased ,  I felt like a kid in the candy store, I was excited, proud to own them. They are not lawn mowers to me, far from it, they have significance,they represent an era of USA manufacturing and design that has left the planet. I guess the generations  today  would indeed think I am senile for being  excited about owning a "lawn mower".  

 

Truth be known, I could care less if I ever cut grass with any of them !  :)  When I look at them I am brought back to my childhood when I first saw a neighbor plowing snow with one  probably around 1960.

 

thats what I see.  

 

  

Exc. Post!

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Tonyp
11 hours ago, Adam Bish said:

Maybe it's you who should stop in your local Deere dealer and take a look around. Any of the current X series 3/5/7 will last 20+ years if cared for. I have an X485 with over 4k hours on it. Deere offers box store junk because the people demand it, the usual something for nothing crowd. You get exactly what you pay for . Zero turns have definitely cut.into the true GT segment, but those that still want a tractor, still can buy one. Deere and Simplicity are the only two left building a real tractor. While things are not built like they were 30 years ago, there are still exc. offerings out there if you want to pay for them. I love all garden tractors, but I grew up in a family owned deere dealership. Although deere was not the first to offer a garden tractor, they are the only one left whom has not been bought/sold out. I believe it is because the offer we of best equipment available, that holds maximum resale value. Again just my 2 cents.

Briggs owns both snapper and Simplicity now. Yes you can still buy a snaplicity.

 

 

 

Well, I did stop in at the JD Dealer and the 300 and 500 machines are nice, but the 300 is not a Garden Tractor  . The #1 thing that was disappointing to me was the way the decks go on and off, nothing like the previous years of JD. I would agree that the 500 is  indeed a REAL tractor, but the 300 to me , nice, yes, is nothing more than an updated D  series .    I am not dissing JD, they have their spot in history and to their credit are still a viable company.  If cutting grass is the only chore than indeed perhaps a 300 series is a nice solution but to many, cutting grass is just one of the things we do with a machine that costs several thousand. Zero turns , same thing.

 

The TV adds show a really nice JD driving over the deck for easy on easy off,   then when you get to the dealer, thats the $6000 plus machine not the $3500 /300 series. 

 

To me when I did look at the JD's, the 500's were just way too expensive to justify and the 300's didn't offer enough deck options. Me,  I prefer a 36 with a quick removal system. the 300's only offer a 42 or more and it is NOT a quick removal system. In fact it reminded me of my first WH/ A110 Lawn tractor from the mid 70's with the multiple pins to remove the deck.   I could be mistaken but I think they are all vertical shaft machines which means getting to belts is not an easy chore. I am not sure of the 500 series. 

 

I'm not arguing or dissing JD,  I'm just stating my point of view which is an opinion.  JD changed their lineup over the last decade as well, it appears to me that they have  two markets now, the $3500 of less  home owner LAWN market ( 300 and D series) and then the top of the line WORKING  500's  .  

 

Regardless, new buyers of lawn machines are being lured in with Hi HP and 4 wheel steering but at the end of the day if you don't remove the deck for cleaning and maintenance  and perform full maintenance on the machine itself there is no way possible it will last  a decade or more. Even if we pay $3800 or over $5000 !  

 

 

Edited by Tonyp
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shallowwatersailor

I moved to Maryland eight years ago from Illinois where John Deere is "King." My first choice was of course a SCUT but my wife felt that was overkill (?) for our 2 acres. So I looked at all the different garden tractors, both new and used. In the new category, Simplicity was too high priced along with the John Deere 304 and above series (base 300 used a K46) and 500 series. The X series way too much. Even though Husqvarna offered a GT with a ground-engaging transmission, I still felt that it would need replacing in an 8-10 year timeframe.

 

So I started on the used market looking at John Deere as there was really nothing else offered. I also felt that a diesel would be good to have (I was a diesel mechanic Engineman in the Coast Guard) as long as I needed a tractor. I can remember visiting a JD dealer in Illinois to look at a JD 430 but he showed me the worn driveshaft (common) that wobbled but still was about $4K. Shift to Maryland as we had bought the house but still to move and I was searching for a JD 455. I found a sweet little JD 355 with a Yanmar two-cylinder diesel but it was a bit used. Reviews were mixed as well. Even at higher rpm the plastic hood really rattled. Stopped at another JD dealer and found a JD 420 and a 425 AWS. They were not what I was looking for, but over in the corner was a red tractor that I had never seen before. It was a Toro Wheel Horse 518xi!  I went home, did some research, and purchased it. Surprisingly this and my 523Dxi both came from John Deere dealers. I guess that they want to keep the red "ripened" tractors away from the "Green" ones. :ychain:

 

Here is the dealer's sales photo from 2009 of my 518xi:

Toro Wheel Horse 518xi.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by shallowwatersailor
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Adam Bish

Nice tractor sailor!

2 hours ago, Tonyp said:

 

 

Well, I did stop in at the JD Dealer and the 300 and 500 machines are nice, but the 300 is not a Garden Tractor  . The #1 thing that was disappointing to me was the way the decks go on and off, nothing like the previous years of JD. I would agree that the 500 is  indeed a REAL tractor, but the 300 to me , nice, yes, is nothing more than an updated D  series .    I am not dissing JD, they have their spot in history and to their credit are still a viable company.  If cutting grass is the only chore than indeed perhaps a 300 series is a nice solution but to many, cutting grass is just one of the things we do with a machine that costs several thousand. Zero turns , same thing.

 

The TV adds show a really nice JD driving over the deck for easy on easy off,   then when you get to the dealer, thats the $6000 plus machine not the $3500 /300 series. 

 

To me when I did look at the JD's, the 500's were just way too expensive to justify and the 300's didn't offer enough deck options. Me,  I prefer a 36 with a quick removal system. the 300's only offer a 42 or more and it is NOT a quick removal system. In fact it reminded me of my first WH/ A110 Lawn tractor from the mid 70's with the multiple pins to remove the deck.   I could be mistaken but I think they are all vertical shaft machines which means getting to belts is not an easy chore. I am not sure of the 500 series. 

 

I'm not arguing or dissing JD,  I'm just stating my point of view which is an opinion.  JD changed their lineup over the last decade as well, it appears to me that they have  two markets now, the $3500 of less  home owner LAWN market ( 300 and D series) and then the top of the line WORKING  500's  .  

 

Regardless, new buyers of lawn machines are being lured in with Hi HP and 4 wheel steering but at the end of the day if you don't remove the deck for cleaning and maintenance  and perform full maintenance on the machine itself there is no way possible it will last  a decade or more. Even if we pay $3800 or over $5000 !  

 

 

The new decks on all the X series come off very easily. My parents mow with an LX188 and a LX277 , 25 and 15 year old LAWN TRACTORS, respectively. Both are high hour mowers and run/mow like new. Any good quality brand will last if cared for. 5k is entry level for a good tractor, most of the 500 series are 6-7k. The 700 series are true garden tractors, they start at 10k and up. I mow with aold x485, and just bought a new x730. They are both well built, and a dream to mow with. As I said before, you get what you pay for these days.

Have a good Saturday.

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WVHillbilly520H

Ok not dissing on JD but do you think you can find an x7xx used running or not for the prices we give for our beloved red machines, like my low hour (282) $800 523DXi (not running but not a total loss either) the PO had $ to burn obviously ,the 236hr 520H ($1200) I also bought this spring was neglected by him as well and when I made a trip back to my old WV dealer (in August) I bought them at the same guys' Simplicity Legacy diesel was there non running now, seems to me this fellow has no mechanical ability but $, as my bought new 520H ($6300) from same dealer is still running today spinning the 2stage in the winters and mowed every year till this one, so still the $ I have spent on WH in the last 18 years to me has been a wise investment to mow grass, blow/plow swow, driveway repair,firewood gatherer and gardening, so in other words it doesn't make much difference what color or price is if it's not taken care of and maintained properly,Jeff.

IMAG1898.jpg

IMAG2225.jpg

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Adam Bish

To each his own, I like and collect all brands. Just partial to deere I guess. Money really doesn't matter to me, if I like it/want it, I buy it no matter what it costs. Have a great day.

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WVHillbilly520H
1 hour ago, Adam Bish said:

 Money really doesn't matter to me, if I like it/want it, I buy it no matter what it costs. Have a great day.

If that were the case for ALL of us then I don't believe we would be having this discussion,it boils down to what each person can afford and the way WH/TORO for 30+ years(up to the Xi) kept the attachments universal throughout their garden tractor line unlike the rest every few years/models change just enough to have buy that models attachments, and I was raised on IH/CUB CADET also simple long lasting machines but for me it's about being frugal and getting the most use out of the $ I spend no matter what color it buys,Jeff.

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Sarge

Just for grins , I did a bit of a comparison recently....

 

Had a buddy over who brought a guy from work with him. Had both the '73 16 Auto and the Deere LA145 sitting out after a bath , the '73 has been resprayed/decals and looks pretty good . I asked , out of the two , which the guy would buy used ....

He said the Deere , based on reputation and horsepower (22hp Briggs) .

Then , I asked him about quality/weight/design ...

He says , well , the Deere is a lot of plastic , but at least it has the horsepower to pull that big deck . Hmm....

 

I said "well, there is a huge difference in torque , that old Kohler will pull the 48" deck just as well as the Deere's 22hp Briggs" . He looked at me like I was nuts and asked if he could try them out .

After two passes each through some pretty tall grass at a faster than usual clip , he asked if he could buy the Wheel Horse .

 

" It's not for sale" was my reply . I asked why he'd prefer the old Horse to a newer machine - he says " it doesn't feel so cheap, like it's about to fall apart" .

 

He's been hunting CL now for a Horse of his . I wasn't aware buy my buddy later told me he's been buying a new lawn tractor about every 4-5yrs and is pretty reasonable about taking care of them , mows about 3/4 of an acre , pulls a small cart around and a sweeper . Every single one of them has had a transmission failure of the cast aluminum type . It was the cast iron beef he liked most in the old Horse and the way it rode due to larger tires and an extra 300lbs of weight vs the Deere . My point is until they understand the quality difference , they buy according to looks , hp numbers and price - it's an uneducated mass that wasn't taught enough about all things mechanical like many of us - or are at least willing to learn . There is a small group of older guys and even a couple pretty young rebuilding old garden tractors around here and putting them up for sale . Unless one is priced crazy - they disappear in just a few days . Illinois is a brutal place to live with swings in temperature/snow and grass duties . Cheap junk doesn't last , some are actually starting to learn ....

 

I'm also working on a D180 lately and rebuilding it's 56" blade - getting tired of people stopping here and wanting to buy it despite the faded paint , rust and general ugliness that only the nose of a D can generate . It's a huge chunk of iron and has a certain appeal of being in charge of something brutal , I guess....

 

Sarge

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BESTDOGEVER

I have had the 17 hp and 24hp Briggs 26 hp kawasaki and 18hp Onan and kohler engines on different machines and my 310 8 will keep up with the best of them pulling a 48 inch deck not bad for almost 30 year old tractor 

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JERSEYHAWG /  Glenn

Glad to see that the xi was brought up, it's one heck of a brute of a machine. For my money the 5xi series is one of the better machines today, IMHO.

 

Glenn

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DennisThornton
On 9/30/2016 at 11:50 AM, T-Mo said:

John Deere makes all of their lawn and garden tractors.  The less expensive ones, the LA series, are made in their plant in Tennessee, while their zero turns and all of their X Series are made in Horicon, Wisconsin.  They make the frames, decks, sheet metal, etc.  Engines and transmissions, of course, are from Briggs, Kohler, Kawasaki, Yanmar, Tuff Torq, etc.

How about the "Scotts" brand?  Made by JD here in the States as well?

5 hours ago, JERSEYHAWG / Glenn said:

Glad to see that the xi was brought up, it's one heck of a brute of a machine. For my money the 5xi series is one of the better machines today, IMHO.

 

Glenn

I'm not a JD expert or anything near that but it seems to me that to get similar features of the 5xxXIs in a Deere you would have to buy at least a 300 series but I think the 400 series is a scale higher than the WH XIs.  But if you price the JD 300s and 400s they command a pretty good price around here!  Certainly much more than the WH XIs!  That's why there is still no green in my collection!

 

I would love to hear other opinions on how the JD 300 and 400 series compare to the XIs, but maybe that should be another thread...

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T-Mo
13 hours ago, DennisThornton said:

How about the "Scotts" brand?  Made by JD here in the States as well?

I'm not a JD expert or anything near that but it seems to me that to get similar features of the 5xxXIs in a Deere you would have to buy at least a 300 series but I think the 400 series is a scale higher than the WH XIs.  But if you price the JD 300s and 400s they command a pretty good price around here!  Certainly much more than the WH XIs!  That's why there is still no green in my collection!

 

I would love to hear other opinions on how the JD 300 and 400 series compare to the XIs, but maybe that should be another thread...

The earlier Scotts were made by Murray, but then in the mid-90 to late 90s, Deere made then along side the Sabre line in a Deere factory in Tennennesse.

 

On the JD 300 and 400 series, keep in mind the John Deere 318 has been called and considered by many to be one of the best L&G tractors ever made.  Dual hydraulics, turning brakes, power steering, commercial grade engine, bullet proof transmission, FEL able, Category 0 3 point hitch.  Deere had to to get it right with the 318 due to the 317's Kohler KT-17 issues.  Then, Deere up the ante when they dropped in a 3 cylinder diesel in a 318 to make first the 330, and then the 332, and then further up the ante with the 3 cylinder gas Yanmar 322.  The earlier 300 series were derived off the 140 and 120 closed frame tractors.  The 140 was designed to fill the role that a Farmall Cub had, but in a smaller package.

 

The 400 series originated in 1975 with the 400, triple hydraulics, power steering, turning brakes, 3 point hitch, 19.9 hp twin cylinder Kohler, and then made it better in 1983 with the introduciton of the 420 and 430.  The 430 was the first Deere with a diesel engine.  The Wheel Horse 5Xi might be closer to the 420/430 replacement, the 425, 445 and 455 machines.

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BESTDOGEVER

Going back to the original question that jelly ghost asked there are some minor differences in the 3,4,and 500 series tractors. Obviously the available options both cosmetic and functional increased as the model went up. Performance changed also due to engine size and accessories also tires were different which improved handling  but the basic frame, drive train and capabilities remained the same until the end of production. My 3 machines have from 800 to over 2000 hours and I am sure my grandsons will be using them when I'm gone and all 3 are over 27 years old now to me that is more important than whether the green tractor is as good or better truthfully they were made for different markets and needs both do what they were intended to, both were products of a generation that valued quality and resourcefulness 

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DennisThornton
On 10/2/2016 at 11:56 AM, BESTDOGEVER said:

I have had the 17 hp and 24hp Briggs 26 hp kawasaki and 18hp Onan and kohler engines on different machines and my 310 8 will keep up with the best of them pulling a 48 inch deck not bad for almost 30 year old tractor 

I've got a soft spot for the lower HP WHs and whenever I find someone who agrees I just like to go on record.

A friend in the trade (sold GTs and such) says the higher HP is just a "feature with no benefit"!  Folks think they are buying a bigger better tractor just because of the engine!  How many HP can a 48" deck use!  My PK with it's 14HP single cylinder will mow down small trees!  I mow with a 20 HP Toro (sorry, not a WH) and about all I get for that 20HP is gas consumption!  Well, and the 50" deck, and a couple of other things, but I NEVER need that 20HP!  NEVER!  I'm mowing my lawn, not a field!

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DennisThornton
On 9/29/2016 at 9:49 AM, shallowwatersailor said:

This past Spring one of my neighbors was in need of a new lawn mower tractor. In my neighborhood, we are all on 2+ acre lots. He knew about my herd and asked if I would like to sell one. I offered him my C-145A with a 48" deck. He needed to replace a Poulan with a 40-42" (?) deck. First words were how tight does it turn? "Left and Right", I said. He said that he would drop over to see it.

 

Two weeks later he shows up at 8:00 am and wants to see it! My collection exceeds my storage so unfortunately it is under my carport and could use a bath. He looks at it and I offer it to him for what I paid. He's too worried about parts for it so passes. A week later I see a U-Haul trailer in his driveway along with a "little" Husqvarna from HD. Can we say K-46 transaxle? ;)

 

I haven't asked him about it as I am waiting for the tech questions next year. I will say this, my next door neighbor has an older Murray gear tractor with a 38" deck. In seven seasons, I have replaced the carb for him and this year diagnosed need of a new battery. The battery was interesting as he bought a new one from an autoparts store that was bad from the factory! He will probably keep using it until the wheels fall off.

I think I know exactly what you are saying and thinking, but could I please point out the obvious?  

Many?  Most of us here know how to fix things.  I might be wrong and really hope I am, but I think that makes us unusual in that most folks just can't!  Fixing stuff makes us happy, proud and complete!  For others, having to fix stuff gives them an upset stomach and the hives!  I buy lots of stuff not worrying about if it needs this or that but for other folks that stuff would be a deal stopper!  Buying a new tractor comes with a care package that means $1000s of dollar for lots of folks.  You, I and many others just don't need that, but...

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DennisThornton
12 hours ago, T-Mo said:

The earlier Scotts were made by Murray, but then in the mid-90 to late 90s, Deere made then along side the Sabre line in a Deere factory in Tennennesse.

 

On the JD 300 and 400 series, keep in mind the John Deere 318 has been called and considered by many to be one of the best L&G tractors ever made.  Dual hydraulics, turning brakes, power steering, commercial grade engine, bullet proof transmission, FEL able, Category 0 3 point hitch.  Deere had to to get it right with the 318 due to the 317's Kohler KT-17 issues.  Then, Deere up the ante when they dropped in a 3 cylinder diesel in a 318 to make first the 330, and then the 332, and then further up the ante with the 3 cylinder gas Yanmar 322.  The earlier 300 series were derived off the 140 and 120 closed frame tractors.  The 140 was designed to fill the role that a Farmall Cub had, but in a smaller package.

 

The 400 series originated in 1975 with the 400, triple hydraulics, power steering, turning brakes, 3 point hitch, 19.9 hp twin cylinder Kohler, and then made it better in 1983 with the introduciton of the 420 and 430.  The 430 was the first Deere with a diesel engine.  The Wheel Horse 5Xi might be closer to the 420/430 replacement, the 425, 445 and 455 machines.

Wow!  Lots of good info in a short message!  I had heard that the JD Scotts had been "farmed out" but honestly, I'm glad that JD decided to protect their brand name and do it themselves!  I know we are in "Red" country but I do respect the "Green" brand a lot, though my collection does not currently reflect that!  I don't frequent any JD forums but I have a great deal of admiration for the JD 300 and 400 series from what I've gleaned here and there, and that's without any first hand experience!

 

Being envious of both the JD 300 and 400 series, and an owner of two 5xxXI WHs I'm pleased to hear how you compare the models of the two brands, but the 300's hydraulics and turning brakes leaves me wishing for those features!  Seems to me that the JD 400 series is just more tractor than the XI series, but I also think that is nothing for WH to be ashamed of!

 

Thanks for such a info filled post!

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WVHillbilly520H
26 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

I've got a soft spot for the lower HP WHs and whenever I find someone who agrees I just like to go on record.

A friend in the trade (sold GTs and such) says the higher HP is just a "feature with no benefit"!  Folks think they are buying a bigger better tractor just because of the engine!  How many HP can a 48" deck use!  My PK with it's 14HP single cylinder will mow down small trees!  I mow with a 20 HP Toro (sorry, not a WH) and about all I get for that 20HP is gas consumption!  Well, and the 50" deck, and a couple of other things, but I NEVER need that 20HP!  NEVER!  I'm mowing my lawn, not a field!

I will agree to certain point I grew up on (basically learned to drive on) an "original" CUB CADET 7hp Kohler and for many years it was the "seasonal" rig gardening/mowing/wood gatherer/snow plow ect then came a 1200 CC 12hp, then we got a 14 draw bar hp 1952 Allis Chalmers C that would pull both CC's and all my 520s together around backwards, this is where weight and gearing make all the difference (such as the PK), with that said though with the vacuum/GO gauge on the 520s I can tell when I'm only using 5-10-15 or all 20 hp between dry or wet heavy grass or a light snow vs the big one this past January where I was basically pulling 75-100% most of time spinning that 2stage through 2 feet + of heavy snow, I'm not saying a 1 lung Kohler wouldn't have gotten it done but IMHO that second lung and extra power made it easier, and my 22hp Kioti will out pull/push/cut my WHs but I don't think it could out do the old AC, so again power is realative to weight and gearing and how it's all put to the ground a lot of older semi-trucks weren't much over 2-250 hp but look how much they could/can tug vs a new 300+ hp 1/2 ton P/U truck...but hey I'm just an ole hillbilly,Jeff.

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