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Cadmandu

Hi Range in reverse downhill

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Hi All,

Just had my 89 312-8 delivered last night and when the guy was backing down the ramp it looked like the tractor ran off with him. He needed to brake very hard to stop. Is this normal should hi range reverse hold you back going downhill? I have a steep hill in my back yard if i go up in 4th or 5th gear do i need to go shift into low range then reverse to back down slowly?

Thanks

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Unfortunately the brakes on a Uni-drive :wh: Trans-axle are on the transmission, not the wheels. Since the force of the breaks is transferred through the differential when you apply the brakes the wheel with the least traction will feel the most breaking action. The only safe way to manage hills and ramps is to never let it build up speed. Whatever you do, do not let it roll back and try to stop by letting out the clutch, you will do a back flip!

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2 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

 Whatever you do, do not let it roll back and try to stop by letting out the clutch, you will do a back flip!

Don't I know that. :-o

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:WRS:

Having a fairly steep hill in my backyard growing up with a Wheel Horse, I would highly advise that you not back down a hill EVER if at all possible. Go forward and always have a plan b of a down hill location to steer if you were to loose traction. I have experienced this fairly often on bone stock wheel horses. 

 

As Richard mentioned, if you loose traction on one wheel, then the brakes are almost completely useless as the differential will allow it to "runaway from you". I have mostly seen this happen on low traction surfaces (wet grass, smooth metal, etc). Its rare to happen on regular surfaces unless the hill is very steep. 

 

There are some very effective solutions to this problem:

  • Have good tread on your tires (get good tires)
  • Keep it slow and don't change gears on a hill (if you forget to change gears as you start down a hill, throttle down the engine before you start to slip and it will help)
  • WEIGHT, WEIGHT, WEIGHT - get wheel weights or fill the tires (or both!) and it will help plant the back end
  • Chains - some people run chains year round. If you have enough traction the brakes work well
  • Brakes - Be sure there is enough brake pad material and they are adjusted correctly. See @rmaynard if you need new brake shoes
  • ALWAYS GO STRAIGHT UP/DOWN A HILL - If you unload the weight from one wheel going sideways you are in trouble!

All the warnings aside, I don't want to scare you, Wheel Horses are incredibly capable tractors. If you do one or more of the list above, the tractor will feel planted and be very stable. As with everything else, when you take proper precautions you and your tractor will have a great and long life together! :wh: :handgestures-thumbupright:

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Thanks guys, What would you suggest as good tires? I really like Tru Power Carlisle. I have 22 x 9.00 x 12 on the 89 312-8. Can I go to a 23 x 10.5 x 12 and still have room for rubber chains?

I don't understand why you can't stop at the top of the hill put it in low range/reverse which is .5 mph and safely go backwards letting the transmission hold you back.

Do I have a uni-drive your files section say 1958 to 82

Edited by Cadmandu

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I'm thinking that the guy unloading that horse pushed in the clutch and the horse got away from him.  The transmission, in any gear (including reverse) should not get away from you and free wheel on its own.  You should be able to back down a hill, but it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and not anything you should do.  If you pop the clutch, the front of the horse probably will come off the ground and could come all the way over on top of you.  Actually, the guy that unloaded that horse, should have been walking beside it...not riding it down the ramp.  A few hundred pounds of running garden tractor on top of you, with no one around, could hurt or burn you real bad...if you even survive.  :think:

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48 minutes ago, Cadmandu said:

I don't understand why you can't stop at the top of the hill put it in low range/reverse which is .5 mph and safely go backwards letting the transmission hold you back.

 

YOU can... I would not. ;) 
 

Really though, it should be just fine if that's the only way you can do it. Like Steve said, the transmission will not freewheel unless you clutch it. The problem is when you loose traction or there is a slip up (operator error), there have been quite a few tractors flipped on this forum by some very experienced folk, so we just want you to be weary. Also, it will be a LOT of shifting moving two levers for every back and forth and you will get tired of it. :lol:

 

 

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And here is another "voice of experience" as I have a very steep hill my back yard which I have lost traction on many times. First off I believe you are much safer going down your hill in one of your forward gears if you can get turned around at all. First gear is a lower speed than reverse.  I can think of only one time that I have had a run away Wheelhorse in reverse on my back yard hill and it ended badly (I did my best emulation of Bob Maynard and his upside down tractor, BUT I had the deck running with a faulty seat kill switch; fortunately I escaped unharmed).  When and if you ever experience a "run away" on your hill, my experiences say the best way to recover is to keep your foot  OFF the brake and let the engine/wheels slow you down.  You will gain traction faster this way than when standing on the brake. 

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Man I have a 85 Honda Magna VF700C and a 82 CB650 SC Nighthawk sharing my garage with that Wild Horse and you guys got me more nervous about mowing my yard than going for a bike ride. Just kidding I need to know the dangers of this machine. I just sold my Honda 5414 Hydro tractor and i would mow up the hill then straight back to the bottom then up again. Should I get AG tires or turf, if turf what would be a real good aggressive tread money no subject. I will pay 100.00 each for the rear and 45.00 each for the front. It has 22 x 9.0 x 12 now. I would like to go to 23 x 9.5 x 12 and a set of rubber chains. I have a 48" snow blade also. Thanks for all the great advise. I'm glad I bought this stallion now I can tell my wife that I am afraid to mow.

Dan

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If you could mow it successfully with your Honda you won't have any problems with your 8 speed Wheelhorse. Lower gears are safer on steep hills. 

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It is all about being safe...maybe put up some pictures so we can kind of see what we are talking about.  That would be more fair.  We really don't know what you have there...so of course we are not going to tell you it is OK.  :think:

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Cad. I understand that your Honda was a hydrostatic trans. I have years of experience on a really steep hill with a 8 speed manual. That transmission will hold you safely given it is in good repair. The only question is how much traction do you have. I in my previous post ASSUMED that your Honda and your new Wheelhorse would have at least similar traction. If you put Ags on and add weight you will just increase the amount of traction you have.  A general rule of thumb for WH tractors is that you will lose traction before you lose power (or your transmission no longer holds).  

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Ag tires are directional tires.  The provide great traction going ahead thy are terrible trying to back up.  I have seen 4wd farm tractors with the front tires mounted backward so they can back up more easily in muddy/snowy conditions.

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23" tires will work fine, as they were offered stock for most wheel horses. You may also consider upgrading to standard front spindles with 8" rims instead of the 6" that you likely have now.

 

I like AG tires for ground engagement when you will be on loose soil, but I think aggressive turf tires are where its at for all purpose use. 

 

Front tires you can do (I have only checked these according to the most standard front tire size of 16x6.5x8, which you may not have):

Tri ribs (highest grip, but will make ruts on soft ground, and $$$$)

16_650_8_3_rib_front_white__14133.135178

 

Vredestein V61s (less side grip than above, but still quite high, no ruts, a bit less than tri ribs)

5_rib_white_bg__63158.1326903994.220.220

 

Some do ags (which are supposed to be mounted backwards on unpowered front axles), and some do aggressive turfs

Turf Masters:

41VezzkjHTL._AC_UL320_SR238,320_.jpg

 

Rear Tires:

You can either do better turf tires like turf masters, or you can go high traction tire like carslisle all trails ($$$$).

Carlisle_All_Trail_II__05467.1356796116.

 

There are also tires like Kenda K502's ($$) but they are only available in 10.5" width, which would prefer to be put on wider rims like from a 520H (8.5" width rim vs the 7.5" on most other wheel horses)

Terra_Trac_2__84411.1437483015.220.220.j

 

Sources: www.millertire.com, www.amazon.com

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That is great info, thanks. If I put All trails on the back with rubber chains for snow what would be a good front tire. I heard that the front tends to slid while pushing snow.

Where would I get these upgraded 8" spindles? Do they have a bigger center hole dia then the 6" rims? I have a 37" deck 05-37sc01 would this 8" rim and bigger tire hit the deck in sharp turns?

 

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Ah, yes I forgot about the 37" deck. Larger front rims and tires WILL hit the 37" deck on hard turns.

 

They do tend to push around in the snow. Front weight helps but tires help the most. Thats where the tri-ribs or v61's come in to play with the deep grooves. I dont know what size tire you have or whats available for it, but many people have had luck taking snowblower chain (i think its #40?) and wrapping one center wrap all the way around the tire while its deflated, then inflate to hold it in place. It will scratch up the driveway, but better than nothing if there are no other options. (I just noticed you want to put rubber chains on, so you probably care about scratches)

 

If you ever get a different sized deck, you can list a wanted ad in the classifieds for new spindles and rims/tires. The axle is the same size but your current spindles are extended length to account for the overall difference in height of the smaller tires. Your best option may be to get a 42" deck with correct spindles and 8" wheels... (or a donor tractor with all of that in place). There are a lot of WH's in the northeast and midwest so you may be able to find a decent clunker or talk to someone here who is parting one out to just get the parts you need. 

 

 

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Just bought a set of 23 x 10.5 x 12 with rims from a tractor graveyard. It was lots of fun walking among all the possible projects. I think the guy is a hoarder seems like nothing was for sale.

I bought them for 60.00 each they leak around the rims but they have been out in the rain deflated. I will pull them apart as soon as HF gets my 44.00 tire changer in. My tires are 22 x 9.00 x 12 and rims were painted silver

I am hoping that my new ones are 81/2 and my old ones are 71/2. Can I put jack stands under my axle while changing wheels/

 

IMG_0087.JPG

IMG_0092.JPG

IMG_0135.JPG

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Yes to the jack stands.  It is hard to tell from the picture of the new white wheels but did they come off a Wheel Horse??? If not did you check the backset.  Wheel horses do not have much back set and that is especially important if you want to use chains.  (too much backset and the chains will hit the frame and gas tank holder). 

 

 

EDIT:  To measure backset lay a straight edge across the back of the rim.  Then measure the distance from that to the bolt holes.  Should be 1-3/8" for a WH. A common wheel back set is 2-3/8"  That may cause clearance issues with fat tires and/or chains.

Edited by pfrederi
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The Vredestein V61 actually come in a 15x6.00-6 to fit your current 6" wheels. Having both Tri-Ribs and the V61 tires on different tractors, I prefer the V61.

 

Actually, if the front tires are in decent shape and hold air I would just keep them. Depending on the snow, the blade is going to go where it wants to. But once you get the feel for it you learn to compensate.

 

I agree with Paul. Those look like Cub Cadet wheels.

Edited by shallowwatersailor
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You guys are so helpful. That info on tires and rims is great. I just measured my backset on the new white purchased ones

it is 2 1/2" and the ones that are on my toy they are the silver ones are measuring 2" so they are probably not WH rims either. The tires on the silver ones is 22 x 9.00 x 12 and i only have 1 1/16" on the right side between the tank support and the tire. So If i put 10.5 on which i would like to do I would be 5/16" away and with rubber chains it would be making sparks. So I need to buy WH rims and new all trails.

what a nice forum this is

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My 312A has 22x9.00-12 tires with a shim from the factory on the right side to gain additional clearance for chains.

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Mine does As well but no shim what is your backset and rim width how thick is the shim

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Just bought a 60.00 set of decals from Redo your Horse. Does my 89 312-8 have a fuel filter? Trying to take my cub cadet rims back. I mowed last night it was a blast. Where can i get a mulch cover for a 37" deck 05-37sc01

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