Power steering

[rwilson 128]

Has anyone ever put power steering on a wheel horse? I'm talking about a true power steering like in a car type power steering. I have a vision in my head it has a mini power steering gear box like one in the older trucks but much smaller. the steering wheel shaft to the gear box, then the oulput shaft to the front. A belt driven pump off the motor. Two lines, a pretty clean setup. Any Ideas?? Has anyone done this? Is it even possible? :hide:

[Stigian 1,234]

An interesting idea you have there Sir

I did think about for my "not happening for a while" 312-8 4x4 project, but thinking about it was as far as it got.

Would an electric power steering set-up from a small Jap or Italian car be a better option

It might be easier to fit in what space you have available, but m only guessing here :hide:

[Mith 2]

I know a guy who has on a MF tractor. There was a discussion on MTF

power steering

personally, I prefer hydraulic steering over power assist steering for tractors. There is no feedback on hydraulic steering. Feedback can be dangerous when off road.

[Duff 206]

personally, I prefer hydraulic steering over power assist steering for tractors. There is no feedback on hydraulic steering which can be dangerous when off road.

I don't mean to be a smart-a**, but am I missing something in the above statement?

Duff :D

[Mith 2]

I dont know, what are you missing?

Hydraulic steering has no mechanical connection to the steering wheels, power assist uses a hydraulic powered torque amplifier to make it easier to turn the steering wheel.

The expression refers to any of various steering system configurations where a vehicle is steered solely by means of a hydraulic circuit comprising, as a minimum, a pump, lines, fluid, valve, and cylinder (actuator). that is to say, the vehicle is steered (usually via the front wheels) purely by a hydraulically powered steering cylinder.

This is an important distinction from "hydraulically (power) assisted" steering, where hydraulic power serves only to assist a mechanical steering system (as is the case with the every-day Saginaw hydraulically assisted power steering on virtually every light car / truck on the road today), and is also the reason for the inclusion of the word "full" (as in FULL Hydraulic steering) in common use. It indicates that the vehicle is steered ONLY by hydraulics, with no other system (mechanical linkage) in place.

[Duff 206]

I dont know, what are you missing?

Hydraulic steering has no mechanical connection to the steering wheels, power assist uses a hydraulic powered torque amplifier to make it easier to turn the steering wheel.

OK, now I get it! It's early and my brain is still a little foggy - worked a double shift yesterday and haven't gotten with the program yet today!

Thanks!

Duff :hide:

[Mith 2]

Thats OK.

Everything you ever wanted to know about steering is HERE

[Nick 13]

In guess it was the 80s up into the the 90s that the local dealer put together and installed a power steering kit. It was used on hydro tractors using the existing hydraulics. It replaced the mechanical steering parts with a power steering valve and cylinder plus came with decals for the hood. These were also sold to some other dealers so there could be a few tractors floating around other areas with the kit. They sold out of the kits and no longer build them.

I did have some other pictures but the 520 is all that I could find.

[kpinnc 10,719]

I still have a couple too Nick:

I would really like to know the valving setup on this. I kept these pics for a reason...

Kevin

[Nick 13]

Kevin, Ive asked my brother if they had any kind of manual from the steering kit but forget if he had an answer for me. Guess I can hit him up again.

[rwilson 128]

I would like to put power steering on my 520H. Where do the hoses hook up to? Is the cylinder just like the hydrolic lift cyl? I think I can fab the tierod and brackets. Ijust need a little more info on how to hook up the lines and about the cylinder. If you can get a manual or something like that, that would be great.

[Mith 2]

You will need a steering valve. The fun begins when you start trying to figure out the size of valve you need. The valves list the displacement, you need to figure the displacement of the ram you are using, then divide that by the number of turns you want the steering wheel to go from lock to lock and that is the displacement of the valve you need.

You really want non load reaction, so that if you hit a bump the steering wheel wont be snatched out of your hands. The wheels are locked whenever you arent turning the wheel.

2" bore ram with 6" stroke is 19cuin on the push stroke. If you want 3 turns lock to lock, then 19/3=6.3cuin/rev valve.

I linked to an article earlier which explains the different types of rams you can use, I would recommend using 2 single acting rams, or 2 double acting rams cross tied. This means you get the same number of turns lock to lock going left or right.

Steering valves (prices aren't bad either)

[Mith 2]

And Duff, you were right, I did screw up my earlier post that you queried, I have corrected it. :hide:

[Ian928 46]

I have been thinking about power steering for my D-200 (it is very heavy to steer and that kills the steering box also). I do not know how this applies to other Wheel Horse tractors.

I do not know about other Wheel Horses but on my D-200 there is a steering box that converts the rotational movement from the steering wheel to a fore-and aft moving arm. This arm is connected to a rod that goes forward and through linkages steers the wheels.

Here's my idea: Throw away the steering box and lenghten the axle from the steering wheel. Then place a power steering rack from some small car underneath the tractor (almost longitudinally but so that the linkage poninst in the right direction). You may have to either tilt the steering wheel more or less or use some sort of universal joint to connect the steering wheel axle. Then connct the front rod from the steering rack to the linkage that steers the wheels at the front. The rear linkage can be cut off (or if you are really ingenious you could use it for something else when the tractor is stationary - for instance lift a three-point hitch!)

What is keeping me from doing this to my D-200 is I don't belive the original Hydrodrive has enough hydraulic pressure to work with a power steering rack...

[refracman 166]

The easiest way to put power steering on your tractor it to adapt, dare I say it, is to use a assembly off a JD 317 or a like type setup. This is the eaisest setup to use since they use a 4 port setup and you can tap directly into the hydro lift lines for powering it. They are not cheap here is one that is on ebay off a toro ground master that will work. http://cgi.ebay.com/Toro-Groundsmaster-455...1QQcmdZViewItem

Once you have the control ass. a standard WH cylinder can be usedfor the slave cyl.. A little figurein like the throw of the cyl, then the wheels from side to side. A little metal fabricatin for mounting brackets and weldin here and there and well you get the idea.

[Ian928 46]

The easiest way to put power steering on your tractor it to adapt, dare I say it, is to use a assembly off a JD 317 or a like type setup. This is the eaisest setup to use since they use a 4 port setup and you can tap directly into the hydro lift lines for powering it. They are not cheap here is one that is on ebay off a toro ground master that will work. http://cgi.ebay.com/Toro-Groundsmaster-455...1QQcmdZViewItem

Once you have the control ass. a standard WH cylinder can be usedfor the slave cyl.. A little figurein like the throw of the cyl, then the wheels from side to side. A little metal fabricatin for mounting brackets and weldin here and there and well you get the idea.

Interesting. Will it be possible to steer without hydraulic pressure (meaning: Does this valve act as a pump if there is no oil pressure)?

Do you think the standard cylinder will be fast enough? When I lift the snow blade it is very slow. I guess this is because the ciameter of the cylinder is big because pressure is low. Maybe I can use a cylinder with smaller diameter to gain speed, I probably do not need to be able to break somethin in the steering...

[refracman 166]

Yes you will be able to still steer if the engine is not running.

You are correct D series uses a large cyl. 3" dia with a 1" rod. which would be slower as where the cyl pictured is 1 1/2 dia. with 5/8 rod.

I think the small dia.cyl. would be best to use because it could be mounted closer to the frame and its longer extended length you would not have the cyl. lines exposed from the underside of the tractor.

[Ian928 46]

Yes you will be able to still steer if the engine is not running.

You are correct D series uses a large cyl. 3" dia with a 1" rod. which would be slower as where the cyl pictured is 1 1/2 dia. with 5/8 rod.

I think the small dia.cyl. would be best to use because it could be mounted closer to the frame and its longer extended length you would not have the cyl. lines

[refracman 166]

Ian

Either one will work but I would go with the mate to it. The reasoning is that both will have the same fittings. Standard Wheel horse fittings are a #5 fitting while most others use a #6 fitting and you would only have to adapt the 2 supply lines to the steering box. The #5 fittings are getting harder and not a standard fitting anymore.

I would also get the steering wheel so you will not have to modify the existing or try to find one, you also might want to look at the lines as you might be able to use them in your application and get them for less than new would cost.

Just a thought you are putting this on a hydro tractor correct? :hide:

[Ian928 46]

Ian

Either one will work but I would go with the mate to it. The reasoning is that both will have the same fittings. Standard Wheel horse fittings are a #5 fitting while most others use a #6 fitting and you would only have to adapt the 2 supply lines to the steering box. The #5 fittings are getting harder and not a standard fitting anymore.

I would also get the steering wheel so you will not have to modify the existing or try to find one, you also might want to look at the lines as you might be able to use them in your application and get them for less than new would cost.

Just a thought you are putting this on a hydro tractor correct?

Yes, we are putting it on a hydro tractor, a D200 Twin-automatic (wathever the Twin is?). Am I correct to assume that I can just put a T-connection on the pressure and return lines to the lift cylinder lever?

[linen beige 14]

a D200 Twin-automatic (wathever the Twin is?).

This refers to the two (twin) cylinder original engine. Hope your steering project works out!

[Mith 2]

Am I correct to assume that I can just put a T-connection on the pressure and return lines to the lift cylinder lever?

No, you cant plumb hydraulics in parallel, they must be in series (one valve after another).

You really need a 5 port steering valve, the 5th port is called power beyond, and you would connect that port to the pressure line going to the lift cylinder valve.

Connect the pressure from the pump to the pressure on the steering valve. Then connect the power beyond from the steering valve to your lift cylinder valve. This will mean that your steering has priority over the lift.

The return line from the steering valve and the lift valve are T'd together, and return back to the trans.

[evanloock 216]

If you go to the Wheel Horse Show in Arendtsville you can check out Don Kane's GT-14 with the FEL. He put power steering on the tractor using the steering valve/hydraulic cylinder approach. Never drove it, but Don said it worked great.

[Ian928 46]

No, you cant plumb hydraulics in parallel, they must be in series (one valve after another).

You really need a 5 port steering valve, the 5th port is called power beyond, and you would connect that port to the pressure line going to the lift cylinder valve.

Connect the pressure from the pump to the pressure on the steering valve. Then connect the power beyond from the steering valve to your lift cylinder valve. This will mean that your steering has priority over the lift.

The return line from the steering valve and the lift valve are T'd together, and return back to the trans.

Hmm... this is in contradiction to what refracman say above: "This is the eaisest setup to use since they use a 4 port setup and you can tap directly into the hydro lift lines for powering it."

What is correct? This is important for us cause WH parts are NOT easy to come by here.

[Ian928 46]

If you go to the Wheel Horse Show in Arendtsville you can check out Don Kane's GT-14 with the FEL. He put power steering on the tractor using the steering valve/hydraulic cylinder approach. Never drove it, but Don said it worked great.

It would be a long way to go from Norway!

In fact there are some Wheel Horse tractors here, a lot of small farms were situated in terrain where big tractors could not be used so a small tractor that can do the work of an old tractor were a viable alternative. That is also why a lot of these tractors does not have a mower, but rather farm equipment.