416-H/ARK Loader Fitment Issue

[rmaynard 8,067]

The pump is directional.

 

From the top

 

 

[wallfish 4,539]

Although it's difficult without physically seeing, touching and measuring, I'm still of the opinion the pump could go up in front of the PTO like the location of the red pump in my pic.

Remove the brace for now and then address that problem after the pump is mounted.

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

2 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Although it's difficult without physically seeing, touching and measuring, I'm still of the opinion the pump could go up in front of the PTO like the location of the red pump in my pic.

Remove the brace for now and then address that problem after the pump is mounted.

 

 

 

Or is there any way to attach a mount to the diagonal brace and mount the pump to that?

[rmaynard 8,067]

5 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Although it's difficult without physically seeing, touching and measuring, I'm still of the opinion the pump could go up in front of the PTO like the location of the red pump in my pic.

Remove the brace for now and then address that problem after the pump is mounted.

 

The problem is that the pump is directional and the body of the pump conflicts with the brace when the pulley is aligned with the PTO. Move it under the brace and the tire hits it when turning right. Move it above the brace and the pulley hits the muffler. Move it forward and it hits the vertical portion of the hood.

6 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said:

Or is there any way to attach a mount to the diagonal brace and mount the pump to that?

See my reply to wallfish above.

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

Is there anywhere in this area the pump could be mounted, if someone could fabricate a mount?

[elcamino/wheelhorse 4,849]

If you remove the muffler and replace with a stack ,would that help ?

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

I missed this picture before. This is what I meant. Could you physically fit it in this general area, lower or more forward, etc., if you could fabricate a mount?

 

[wallfish 4,539]

10 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

The problem is that the pump is directional and the body of the pump conflicts with the brace when the pulley is aligned with the PTO

 

25 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Remove the brace for now and then address that problem after the pump is mounted.

 

Or a new bi-directional pump is about $200

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329712_200329712

 

Tire will hit that area in the circle

 

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

 

Could you bold a flat plate on top of the front mount, then mount the pump there, or will the loader's front cross brace hit it?

 

 

[rmaynard 8,067]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Here are a few more answers:

@elcamino/wheelhorse Don't like stacks. Fabricating a header would be more involved than fabricating some sort of bracket for the pump.

@WNYPCRepair Mounting on front plate would conflict with diagonal brace.and hood.

@wallfish A new bi-directional pump and hoses is way over my budget, which has been blown to pieces already with upgrading the front axle to hubs and 6 plies.

@wallfish @WNYPCRepair If I could get a detailed picture of how John made the bracket to mount the pump below the PTO, that might be the answer.

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

Your tachomatic isn't being used, you could fabricate something using that

 

[rmaynard 8,067]

Tach-A-Matic? Maybe.

@wallfish Does it matter which pulley of the PTO (inner or outer) that the belt goes on?

[MalMac 1,207]

I know this does not answer your question, but the Ark 550 goes on the outer.

[rmaynard 8,067]

Thanks.

[WHX20 11,974]

I don't think it would matter,  inner would be best (bigger diameter) perhaps giving you more flow  through the pump and faster cycle times?

[roadapples 2,427]

3 hours ago, rmaynard said:

Tach-A-Matic? Maybe.

@wallfish Does it matter which pulley of the PTO (inner or outer) that the belt goes on?

Mine is on the outer pulley, and I`m sure it`s factory..

[WNYPCRepair 1,851]

It would only matter as far as the max RPMs of the pump 

[wallfish 4,539]

15 hours ago, rmaynard said:

If I could get a detailed picture of how John made the bracket to mount the pump below the PTO, that might be the answer.

I can get you some pics. But I think your pedal has a bit more travel than my brake does. The bracket is basically made with 2 pieces of angle together but a straight piece of flat bar will work. I just used what I had at the time. It's spaced off the frame using a spacer and a long 3/8 bolt. The adjustment piece connects to the bottom piece and the sub-frame and stabilizes it. Custom guard was added just in case the belt breaks or something. All that plumbing was done so the tire doesn't hit anything and the other side because the hose was short.

Is there some reason you're against modifying the brace? Just seem to be glossing over it since it was mentioned twice. It's only common angle steel. Make a new piece and save the original piece if that's a concern.

I have used my loader with the brace completely disconnected because a bolt holding the front came loose and didn't notice it until after using it. Plus mine is only thin wall tube.   

 

2 hours ago, roadapples said:

Mine is on the outer pulley, and I`m sure it`s factory..

Don't think it's going to make any difference but it will change the RPMs a bit.

My factory pump is lined up with the inner pulley with all the factory brackets.

[wallfish 4,539]

Here's a quick drawing, No welding necessary.

The brace should probably be slotted to adjust belt tension.

main pump plate 3/16 or 1/4" flat bar. Might not have to be as wide if you drill pump mount holes vertical instead of horizontal

Edited September 2, 2016 by wallfish

[rmaynard 8,067]

Thanks for the drawings and info. I am going to take another look this evening now that the rain has moved out.

The reason that I have not addressed the angle brace is simply because I don't like modifying anything that is a structural component.

[WHX20 11,974]

Don't worry Bob...sounds like 'fish knows a thing or two about structural

 

Or does he??

'Sides when you are challenged in the art of joining metals via electricity a project such as this  can be difficult...ask me how I know!

[wallfish 4,539]

33 minutes ago, WHX7 said:

Don't worry Bob...sounds like 'fish knows a thing or two about structural

Ha, I know nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but certain things I'm comfortable with. If it was 6000 lbs with someone working underneath it, get an engineer! But carrying 300 lbs at 7 mph, Duct tape and vice grips will hold that. LoL

 

Don't worry too much about that brace, not that much structure to it unless you're carrying 600 lbs and bouncing full speed through some ruts for a 100 yards.

It definitely has a purpose but it's made the easiest way, located in the easiest spot for manufacturing and it looks good there. Moving it a little will not compromise it's purpose IMO.

[DennisThornton 2,200]

If I was near by I'd be tempted to agree and conclude that indeed there is certainly no way it could possibly work and then make you an offer!    But I'm not so I'm not, BUT!

 

Crap!  There's always a way!  AND, you have the best of the best here to help you (self NOT included!).  Hang in there a bit and see what the other Pros have to say!

[wallfish 4,539]

5 hours ago, wallfish said:

8 hours ago, roadapples said:

Mine is on the outer pulley, and I`m sure it`s factory..

Don't think it's going to make any difference but it will change the RPMs a bit.

My factory pump is lined up with the inner pulley with all the factory brackets.

MISTAKE ---  My factory pump is on the outer pulley too. Backhoe pump on the inner pulley.

Still don't think it matters much especially if you need the room.

[rmaynard 8,067]

Well yesterday provided much stress, cussing, and throwing of things. Then today, after a morning of yard sales, I went to TSC and purchased two different size belts. Already having a 26", a 28" and a 31" belt on hand was not enough. I ended up with a new 29" and 30". I modified my bracket some more, changed it's location, and with a 30" belt I seemed to hit the sweet spot. Pump pulley lines up with the inner PTO pulley. Pump sits low enough that there is no conflict with the brace. The belt no longer rubs on the PTO hoop, and when I turn the wheel all the way to the right, there is no longer any conflict with the plumbing. Since this 416-H is getting a swept-forward axle and trailer hubs, that should even further move the tire away from the pump and hoses. So here are today's pictures:

 

From the side..

 

Clearing the brace..

 

Looking down onto the tire showing how it clears the lower hose..

 

View from the front..

Now I need to get some longer hoses, and I need to make a brace to secure the top flange of the pump.

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by rmaynard