1973 no name and 76 c-160 electrical problems

[tywilk02 28]

First the 1973 no name 12 hp 8 speed.  Tractor has set for years it was stored with the tank and carb emptied of any fuel.  Battery of course is dead, so I just hooked some jumper cables off another mower to it.  When I turn the key it does nothing, no click, nothing.  I have 13.2 volts on the + side of the coil, I have continuity through the pto safety switch, i have 12.8 v on the middle post of the solenoid.  I've pecked the solenoid with a hammer, I've filed the points and set the gap at .020".  I've attempted to jump it from the starter and it just cranks and cranks, pulled the plug, no spark, changed plug and plug wire out with one from a running tractor still no spark.  Coil is warm to the touch after a few minutes.  I'm not sure what I'm missing the next step is to start swapping parts.

 

On to the c-160 battery is shot jumped it started and was running fine until I remove the - jumper cable. It died immediately.  Reconnected jumper cable and started it right back up this time I removed the + cable and it ran for 5-8 seconds and then died.  Could a dead battery with a bad cell be causing this or do I have a magneto problem? 

[ohiofarmer 3,156]

On the frame of the tractor, look for a little ball sticking out that gets depressed when you depress the clutch pedal all the way. that is the safety switch that keeps you from starting [in theory] until you are sitting on the seat with the clutch pushed in. Mine would not start until I adjusted the throw of the clutch.

 

 On the c-160, unhook the cables from the dead battery before you jump it and see if that helps.A truly dead shorted battery could pull all your output from the charging system, it would seem to me. There are much smarter people on this forum than me, so let us see what they say.

[rmaynard 14,863]

The C-160 has a dead battery. As soon as you remove the jumper (power source) it stops because there is no power for the ignition. Charge the battery. If it holds a charge, the engine should keep running.

 

 

On the 12-8, be sure all the grounds are good and clean as your first step. The 12-8 and the C-160 have the same basic electricals. My next step if you don't have spark would be to install new points and condenser. If the coil is getting hot, I'd say something in that area is shorted.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

8 hours ago, tywilk02 said:

First the 1973 no name 12 hp 8 speed.  Tractor has set for years it was stored with the tank and carb emptied of any fuel.  Battery of course is dead, so I just hooked some jumper cables off another mower to it.  When I turn the key it does nothing, no click, nothing.  I have 13.2 volts on the + side of the coil, I have continuity through the pto safety switch, i have 12.8 v on the middle post of the solenoid.  I've pecked the solenoid with a hammer, I've filed the points and set the gap at .020".  I've attempted to jump it from the starter and it just cranks and cranks, pulled the plug, no spark, changed plug and plug wire out with one from a running tractor still no spark.  Coil is warm to the touch after a few minutes.  I'm not sure what I'm missing the next step is to start swapping parts.

 

On to the c-160 battery is shot jumped it started and was running fine until I remove the - jumper cable. It died immediately.  Reconnected jumper cable and started it right back up this time I removed the + cable and it ran for 5-8 seconds and then died.  Could a dead battery with a bad cell be causing this or do I have a magneto problem? 

1973 12hp 8-speed

Remove the spark plug so you can turn the flywheel screen clockwise by hand.

Make sure you have battery voltage at the coil (+) terminal with the key in the run position.

 

Turn the engine flywheel clockwise with the voltmeter or test light connected to the coil (-) terminal.

When the points are open you should have battery voltage. If you don't the points are not opening or the wire from the coil to the points is shorted to ground. The condenser could have an internal short to ground so disconnect it to see if it corrects the situation.

When the points are closed you should have 0 volts. If you don't the points need cleaning or the wire from the coil to the points is broken. For some reason the points are not grounding the coil (-) terminal.

 

The condenser is connected to the coil (-) terminal.

The body of the condenser requires a ground which is normally provided by the clamp and mounting bolt. New paint can inhibit the ground so sand the metal clean where the condenser is bolted to the engine.

 

This battery voltage to 0 volts at the coil (-)terminal should cycle once for every 2 revolutions of the flywheel.

 

Garry

[953 nut 51,500]

The only thing I can add to what Bob and Garry have said is that on ALL electrical problems you should start by cleaning and tightening all electrical connections including grounds; this will correct most of them.

9 hours ago, tywilk02 said:

pecked the solenoid with a hammer,

A hammer is not a diagnostic tool for electrical problems!

[RubyCon1 62]

45 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The only thing I can add to what Bob and Garry have said is that on ALL electrical problems you should start by cleaning and tightening all electrical connections including grounds; this will correct most of them.

A hammer is not a diagnostic tool for electrical problems!

 

 

Just don't hit it with the hook end !!

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by RubyCon1

[tywilk02 28]

I assure you all it was a 8 oz ball peen in light tap mode.

[tywilk02 28]

I know how much you guys like pics I almost forgot to post 

[RubyCon1 62]

how about the hammer ? got pics of that too?

[tywilk02 28]

Sure do!!!

[rmaynard 14,863]

A light tap on a solenoid is okay  but you never want to tap the starter.

[tywilk02 28]

Yeah I know not to tap the starter, there are some ceramic pieces in there that can break correct?

[pfrederi 17,125]

It is the magnets that can be damaged.  Incidentally from your picture  your C-160 does not have a magneto...It has battery ignition

[tywilk02 28]

9 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

It is the magnets that can be damaged.  Incidentally from your picture  your C-160 does not have a magneto...It has battery ignition

How does a person tell what ignition it has just by looking at it?  Were all C-160s like that?

[pfrederi 17,125]

You have the beer can coil mounted on the front of the blower housing.  Kohler used 3 different systems  Magneto with breaker (has points but no visible coil.  Breakerless  (has no points but a triangular shaped coil mount on the blower housing)battery ignition had points and the beer can coil.

[tywilk02 28]

I hope to be as knowledgeable on these tractors as you guys one day you've all been a great help.  Now to do some tinkering and see what I can find out. I'll post my results and thank you all for your time and information.

[tywilk02 28]

Alright gentleman I have a progress report.  This afternoon I went into the garage and removed the nearly 30 year old battery, replaced it with a fresh one and proceeded to test the coil following the steps mentioned above.  I removed the plug and rotated the engine by hand while taking a voltage measurement across the coil and voila, the voltage was cycling as it should be.  So I slapped a plug in that bad boy jumped across the solenoid ( it hasn't been replaced yet) and it fired after 2 seconds of cranking. So apparently that bad battery was completely shorted inside.  That's my best guess anyway.

[953 nut 51,500]

      Got them both running, and did it without a ,   

[tywilk02 28]

 

18 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

      Got them both running, and did it without a ,   

That I did.  Don't think that hammer wasn't on standby. Haha!!