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Midwestfoodplot

K341 c-160 loss of power

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Midwestfoodplot

I have a 74' C-160 automatic. Kohler K341s Cast Iron 16 hp that I've used for about 4 years now for tilling only. This past week, it wants to die when the brake is released and the drive belt is engaged. The safety switches have never been Hooked up since I got it.Absolutely no power. idles pretty good when brake is on.

 

New Parts Installed:

Battery

Coil,plug and wire

Ignition Switch

Regulator

Cables ( all wiring connections went through)

fuel pump, Fuel filter,carb cleaned

condenser and points

stator

Any help or recommendations would be great! Thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

 

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KC9KAS

1st of all, :WRS:

 

Have you checked the compression?

Does it "smoke" when starting or when running? Color of the smoke?

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953 nut

:WRS:  nice looking :wh:,  :text-coolphotos:             I presume that your engine is equipped with an electronic ignition system rather than a points and coil system. If this is the case, remove the black wire from the ignition module (it has one function which is to short out the coil to ground),and start the engine, engage the drive, if it doesn't die out the problem is a black wire in the safety system being pinched by the linkage. Hope this helps, let us know.

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benji756

good looking tractor I like the ags and stack on it

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Midwestfoodplot

It doesn't smoke at all, I will try to run a compression test on it tomorrow. I talked to a mechanic briefly about it and he thought maybe a govenor gear? Going to try and do some more testing and research before I dig into the internals, thanks!

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pfrederi

Compression tests are not valid because of the automatic compression release.  You have to do a leakdown test. 

Also check your governor. The arm may have slipped on the governor shaft.

 

 

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Midwestfoodplot

I did a compression test and it came out at 110 to 115. Seems like a good number. Adjusted govenor shaft counter clockwise, it stopped after 1/16 of a turn so I tightened to arm back down. I put more tension on the spring for more sensitivity. It still wants to die when brake is released. Tried adjusting some things on the carb and that didn't help. Engine sounds like it is idling too high still.

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oldredrider

Check your points setting. They should be at .018 given the age of the tractor. The idle speed can be adjusted at the carb, but points should be set first.

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pfrederi

When you say"The Brake is released"  I assume you mean you push the handle down engaging the hydro.  If the tractor isn't moving and the hydro lift isn't' being used there should be very little load on the engine.  (I assume you can roll the tractor by hand, meaning the parking pawl isn't stuck or some other gear related issue) A thought if charge valve or implement valve are jammed shut the pressure would build quickly and load the engine.  This may be a hydro issue not a engine issue. You might try a charge pump pressure test and and implement lift pressure test. 

 

Edit  if charge pump [pressure is over 150 or implement over 700 that may be the issue.

Edited by pfrederi
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Midwestfoodplot

I've set the points from .020 and .018 to see if there was any noticeable difference. There wasn't any change. The push handle brake just in front of the seat is the brake I'm talking about. I will look into the hydraulics next. Thanks for the added input fellas

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pfrederi

Quick thought.   Put eh tow valve in the tow position then start engine and engage the hydro  any different result?  Tow Alva may prevent a pressure build up that is loading the motor.

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Midwestfoodplot

I couldn't get the tow valve to budge, just a flathead slot in it, why they didn't make it so you could use a socket is beyond me... Going to have a guy that has 3 c160's stop over later today to take a look. Will post again with any new info

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pfrederi

More and more I think you have a hydro problem not a engine problem

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Midwestfoodplot

The guy who looked at it noticed the dipstick constantly pops open when starting and blows some oil out and it also blows back into the carb. He thinks the valves are shot or possibly the ring... What a bummer. I'm still not ruling the hydro out like you said, don't know how to approach that any further. Picked up a parts c160 and fully functioning c160 with another tiller for 100$ today! My 74' plans are to make 25hp if I rebuild.

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953 nut
55 minutes ago, Midwestfoodplot said:

dipstick constantly pops open when starting and blows some oil out and it also blows back into the carb.

Could be carbon deposits broke loose and a chunk holding the intake valve part way open.

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can whlvr

I would look at all the electrical again,you could pull the belt off to eliminate the hydro,sure sounds like an electrical prob,many old engines have blow by and still run,just keep the oil to her,id also pull the head as mentioned already,i guess that's a teccy in her so I cant coment on too much of the electrical,on a kohler its fairly simple.dont give up on her,its probally something small

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Midwestfoodplot
39 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Could be carbon deposits broke loose and a chunk holding the intake valve part way open.

I will do some investigation there for sure next weekend when I get home.

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woodchuckfarmer

Have you set the valve clearance on it? It might help it.     Wayne

 

 

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Midwestfoodplot

Been quite a while since I've been on here. I ended up pulling the engine and tearing it down. Everything appears to be in decent shape besides the cylinder. The cylinder walls have some strange scoring that I am blaming on oversized rings? I believe it has been rebuilt before as the connecting rod isn't Koehler. Haven't been able to track down a bore gauge locally, tempted to just buy one online. If I were to buy a .30 over kit and brought it to a machine shop do they need measurements of the bore or can the use the new piston and bore to that? 

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pfrederi

Any good machine shop can look up the STD .010 .020 and .030 for any Kohler engine.

 

I would take the block to them let them tell you what you need 10/20 or 30

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953 nut
2 hours ago, Midwestfoodplot said:

If I were to buy a .30 over kit and brought it to a machine shop do they need measurements of the bore or can the use the new piston and bore to that?

You will want to take the rod and piston to the shop so they KNOW How it measures, as Paul said, let them measure the block and crank before you buy any parts.

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Searcher60
On 7/31/2016 at 5:08 PM, Midwestfoodplot said:

I couldn't get the tow valve to budge, just a flathead slot in it, why they didn't make it so you could use a socket is beyond me... Going to have a guy that has 3 c160's stop over later today to take a look. Will post again with any new info

 

2 hours ago, Midwestfoodplot said:

Been quite a while since I've been on here. I ended up pulling the engine and tearing it down. Everything appears to be in decent shape besides the cylinder. The cylinder walls have some strange scoring that I am blaming on oversized rings? I believe it has been rebuilt before as the connecting rod isn't Koehler. Haven't been able to track down a bore gauge locally, tempted to just buy one online. If I were to buy a .30 over kit and brought it to a machine shop do they need measurements of the bore or can the use the new piston and bore to that? 

If it's now got an oversized piston, the oversized will be stamped in the piston top. Maybe covered with carbon. If it has not been bored, STD will be stamped in the piston top. I am rebuilding my C-160 now, due to rattling noise. My bore is fine. Crank needed to be turned. Lower balance gear bearing failed on mine. 

.

My C-160 Hydro tow release was stuck also. Just a very little heat, and light tapping and mine came loose. Counterclockwise for towing. 

 

Where re did you get that muffler? Thanks

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Midwestfoodplot
3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Any good machine shop can look up the STD .010 .020 and .030 for any Kohler engine.

 

I would take the block to them let them tell you what you need 10/20 or 30

I'll do that for sure. Thank you. 

38 minutes ago, Searcher60 said:

 

If it's now got an oversized piston, the oversized will be stamped in the piston top. Maybe covered with carbon. If it has not been bored, STD will be stamped in the piston top. I am rebuilding my C-160 now, due to rattling noise. My bore is fine. Crank needed to be turned. Lower balance gear bearing failed on mine. 

.

My C-160 Hydro tow release was stuck also. Just a very little heat, and light tapping and mine came loose. Counterclockwise for towing. 

 

Where re did you get that muffler? Thanks

I couldn't find a stamp on the top after I cleaned it up good, I'll have to look again though. I'll also try freeing up the tow valve when I get a chance. For the muffler, I used the stock down pipe, cut the muffler off and flipped it upright and welded a stack on it. I wrapped the "up pipe" in fiberglass exhaust wrap and put hose clamps on either end to hold it down.

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Midwestfoodplot

Added another c-160 to the fleet. She runs like a top and is in very good condition. You can kinda see the motor torn apart from my other one behind it. I called a machine shop and they quoted me $100 for bore,hone, and complete valve job. Thought that sounded pretty cheap! 

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