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BOB ELLISON

k341 knocking maybe

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BOB ELLISON

My c160 plowed snow all winter like a champ. Started every time and pushed a lot of heavy snow. So l put the 48" deck under it and went 100 feet cutting grass and it started making a noise from the right side like it was a rod knock. Well today I pulled the engine  and opened it up to see if I could find anything laying in the pan. NOTHING. This engine is in great shape. Cylinder wall is beautiful, piston  is .20 over which leads  me to believe it has been rebuilt  before I got it. I did look at the drive belt  and it has a bad  spot on it . So I thinking it was the belt making the noise. I did pull the head off ,so I needed to do that anyways for peace of mind. Has anyone had a noisy belt like this.it makes a banging or knocking .

This stator doesn't look like  stock .

I'm having a charging issue so I have to reassemble to see what it may be. When I do restart it i will leave the drive belt off to see if it was that.

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rmaynard

It looks good on the inside, but without removing the rod cap and taking a measurement you won't know if there is a problem.

 

On the bright side, yes I have had a knocking sound come from a bad belt.

But my belt had about a 1/2" chunk out of it.

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BOB ELLISON

Thank you rmaynard when I Hurd the knocking it didn't sound like a rod knock. I did check the rod nuts and I checked the rod for slop and it felt solid. I know that is not the proper way to check it but I really expected to find the piston end broke in the pan. If the rod was knocking wouldn't it sloppy ???

 

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SPINJIM

Check your points also.  If they are worn, you could be getting a spark too early.  That could give a knocking sound.  I closed my points gap to .019 or even .018  on a K301 and eliminated a knock.

 

Jim

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BOB ELLISON
7 hours ago, SPINJIM said:

Check your points also.  If they are worn, you could be getting a spark too early.  That could give a knocking sound.  I closed my points gap to .019 or even .018  on a K301 and eliminated a knock.

 

Jim

Yes spinJim I did replace points but I will make sure there ok. I'm going to try to time it with the timing mark this time. I did check the valve clearance and the intake was .024 .so I readjusted it to .009.

 

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MalMac

Did, check crank side play? I have seen bearing plates get stress cracks and allow movement. Also did you check balance gears for slop. Sometimes that's hard to do with crank still in it.

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Ken B

I wouldn't be surprised if the balance gears are causing your knocking sound. I've had plenty of 16's with noisy balance gears. I've even gone so far as to remove them to eliminate the noise.  I've come across quite a few sloppy rods on the 16's as well.  Of course, without being able to inspect your engine or hearing your tractor run its hard to say...

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Shynon

Was the flywheel tight? What does the key look like?  I have had a flywheel come loose and thought it was a rod knock. I would throw out those balance gears. 

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BOB ELLISON
16 hours ago, MalMac said:

Did, check crank side play? I have seen bearing plates get stress cracks and allow movement. Also did you check balance gears for slop. Sometimes that's hard to do with crank still in it.

I did not check balance gears except to turn crank .everything felt tight.i put it back together so I can start it up and get a better idea where the noise is.i took it apart to see if it had any parts in the oil pan. It was clean in the oil pan.

16 hours ago, MalMac said:

Did, check crank side play? I have seen bearing plates get stress cracks and allow movement. Also did you check balance gears for slop. Sometimes that's hard to do with crank still in it.

I'm reassembling it now to see if it is still making a noise. If so I'll tear it back down and totally go through  it. Tomorrow I'll start it up and then I'll know.

15 hours ago, Shynon said:

Was the flywheel tight? What does the key look like?  I have had a flywheel come loose and thought it was a rod knock. I would throw out those balance gears. 

The flywheel was good and tight and key looked good as new

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BOB ELLISON
16 hours ago, Ken B said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the balance gears are causing your knocking sound. I've had plenty of 16's with noisy balance gears. I've even gone so far as to remove them to eliminate the noise.  I've come across quite a few sloppy rods on the 16's as well.  Of course, without being able to inspect your engine or hearing your tractor run its hard to say...

Ken B if I have to pull this engine again I will pull the balance gears. I have read a lot of guys take out the balance gears so it won't blow apart. I pulled the engine to see if any thing was in pan. The pan was clean as a pin. I mean clean . If I do decide to pull balance gears what is involved to pull them ??

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MalMac

If you tear it down all the way, the balance gears are held on the studs by a snap ring. If you leave the crank in you can remove the lowest gear toward the oil pan by just removing the snap ring. The upper gear had to removed by breaking it with chiesel and hammer. Rotate gear until you are at the thinnest part. 

I believe there was a post about this. I would search for it and read it. I have never done this and I am just going from memory of what I read. Maybe someone will jump in here that's actually done it. 

The ones I have removed I always had the motor tore down. It's always a good idea to get them out of a K series, the Magnmum 14's and 16's are a different story.

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Ken B

That was a post made by TT I believe. I've done it his way many times... That thread must be here somewhere..

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BOB ELLISON

Well guys here it is I hope this video will download. It does sound like a rod knock darn it. 

 

Edited by BOB ELLISON
video won't load

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WH nut
3 hours ago, BOB ELLISON said:

Well guys here it is I hope this video will download. It does sound like a rod knock darn it. 20160616_104719.mp4

Pull the rod cap

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BOB ELLISON
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:11 AM, rmaynard said:

It looks good on the inside, but without removing the rod cap and taking a measurement you won't know if there is a problem.

 

On the bright side, yes I have had a knocking sound come from a bad belt.

But my belt had about a 1/2" chunk out of it.

Check out my video

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MalMac

I would tear it down, measure the crank journal to see how much wear you got and how much out of round it is, If out of spec. go have it turned.Then I would put appropriate new rod in. Remove the balance gears while your in there. Might also take a look for any cracks in your cam.

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bds1984

Wow.  That sounds like a diesel!

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can whlvr
  • get some plastiflex  or plastigauge and check the clearance on the journal to the rod,its easy to do and fairly accurate
Edited by can whlvr

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BOB ELLISON

Ok guys I haven't gotten in to checking the pin or crank yet but I did find the snap ring was half way off the front balance gear . I don't know yet if that was the noise I Hurd  , but it is possible I think. It allowed the balance gear to be sloppy. This all happened when I put the 48"  deck on and started mowing  the grass. And all of a sudden it started making a noise. Could the extra strain on the PTO have forced the snap ring to pop up ?? I did put it back on but it was very loose, I tried to bend it back but when I opened it up to reinstall it it still was loose. I Will get a new snap ring tomorrow. And I will check all the clearances tomorrow. 

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TT

 

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Buckshot1

:) I will go along with shynon, get rid of those balance gears. Every K-series I have tore down to either refresh/rebuild, The balance gears were the first thing to go in the scrap bucket.:flags-waveusa:

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