C-81 horse start attempt

[LFR 39]

So the tractor sat for 2-3 years and other than maybe some points sticking or the coil or condenser bad what is a known problem on these horses, every tractor has a problem. Is the fuel pump go bad if not used much? And what can I expect with charging, does the rectifier go bad or if things are working should it be fine? Also how tough is the 8 speed transmission, or are the shift spring going to need attention?! I expect some belt slippage and that's stuff I can fix! Also looks like it needs front wheel bearings too! Just curious on what I know I will need to tackle! The tanks smells ok so I think if I put in some seafoam and a new fuel filter I'll be ok?! Thanks anyways guys!

[Tankman 3,515]

Too many "if's" to guess. Was the Horse stored indoors? Outdoors covered or uncovered?

Can you turn the engine, by hand, doesn't jam? How's the engine oil level? Trans oil?

 

I would probably take the Horse, low bucks. Then a thorough work over. Fuel filter and fuel lines. Drain the fuel tank, start with "new" fuel.

Any boat slips nearby? Might find some non-ethanol gas. Clean all 'lectric connections. And more.

 

Was this your Horse? Take a peek-a-boo at this thread.

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Tankman

[Retired Sparky 526]

You can find wheel bearing at Fastenal or Motion Indust.  I was lucky I have an active dealer near by.

[pfrederi 17,114]

Just drain all the gas out of the tank and lines.  Start with fresh

[LFR 39]

I'm not to the gas yet but I'll do a full flush! So what I found is that my starter was stuck so I pulled the air shield and freed it up with dry lube and not it springs all the way back! But I don't have spark! So I'm missing 1 ingredient as I do have compression and will have gas! So it's either the points, the coil, or the condenser, checked and filed the points no luck, so I'm buying a spark plug and then bringing over a coil and condenser! If it still don't have spark it's the points, I haven't done one in a while but I popped the cover and they opened! So other than these I think I'm going to be in good shape? 

[Lost Pup 172]

I use what i call a gas iv to start up suspect tractors. Its a plastic liquid soap bottle with a threaded nozzle on one end and i have one hole in the side near the bottom. I fill the bottle about half way with fresh gas holding my finger over the hole then put the cap on with a long piece of hose slipped over the end nozzle. The other end goes to the carb inlet. The bottle has a wire loop taped to the bottom so it can be inverted and hung up higher then the carb. A simple gravity feed and i used it many times to get the stubborn engines started quickly to be sure you have a good runner before pulling and flushing the tank and changing the lines.

 

 

[LFR 39]

Yeah I have a old cub cadet tank that I use it has its own filter and shut off and I do the same thing!

Can someone tell me if the condenser is supposed to be on the negative side, I can't remember?! Pretty sure it does

Of the coil I'm talking about

[can whlvr 991]

I would check the seat switch maybe put a bypass wire

[LFR 39]

Yeah but it turns over so I don't think that's it! Because it just wouldn't turn over if it wasn't working would it?

[farmer 1,075]

@Lost Pup, sounds like you work in casualty, do you have a nurse standing by?  

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,474]

8 hours ago, LFR said:

Yeah I have a old cub cadet tank that I use it has its own filter and shut off and I do the same thing!

Can someone tell me if the condenser is supposed to be on the negative side, I can't remember?! Pretty sure it does

Of the coil I'm talking about

Yes the condenser goes on the (-) side of the coil.

The battery power goes to the (+) side of the coil.

Easy way to remember - Most times the condenser connects to the points. The (-) side of the coil goes to the points. The condenser does not care which end of the (-) wire it goes to.

The body of the condenser needs to be grounded to the engine or chassis metal. New paint can prevent a good clean ground connection.

 

Garry

[LFR 39]

Ok! My points don't look horrible so I'm going to regap them at .020 and then put my new coil and condenser on! And also a spark plug 

[rmaynard 14,854]

10 hours ago, LFR said:

Yeah but it turns over so I don't think that's it! Because it just wouldn't turn over if it wasn't working would it?

 

The starter circuit does not go through the seat switch, but the ignition does. Both do go through the PTO interlock switch.

[Lost Pup 172]

3 hours ago, farmer said:

@Lost Pup, sounds like you work in casualty, do you have a nurse standing by?  

 

My daughters coined the phrase, we picked up a non runner for a silly price and instead of pushing it did a little triage.

Got it running right in front of the PO and drove it on the truck. He was shocked. I have a few sets of jumper wires , ignore the tractors wiring and just wire the ignition hot to the battery with the jumpers, jump the starter direct , starting fluid and the gas iv and see what happens. Just pull off one of the jumpers to kill it or ground it out to shut it down.  Saves times guessing over the wiring and safeties problems. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Lost Pup

[farmer 1,075]

Sorry for going  but now I'm getting images of  Ghostbusters  l need less 

[LFR 39]

I won't do that! So in other words if I still don't have spark it could be the pot interlock switch?

Cani bypass the pro interlock switch if I still don't get spark?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,474]

Do you have a test light or a voltmeter?

 

Connect it to the coil (+) terminal and chassis ground. 

Turn key to RUN position and you should get 12 volts.

Now turn to START and you should still have 12 volts while cranking.

 

Connect tester to the coil (-) terminal and chassis ground. Turn key to RUN.

When the points are open you should have 12 volts.

When the points are closed you should have 0 volts.

So if cranking the motor with pull rope or starter the above should happen. It may happen too fast to notice.

Remove the spark plug and turn the motor over by hand using the flywheel. The test light or voltmeter should show this on/off cycle.

If you don't get the 0 volts the points may be dirty and not making electrical contact when closed. Polish the contact surfaces with a point file or nail file. Drag a strip of white paper between the contacts until it comes out clean.

 

Garry

[LFR 39]

I have plans to use a test light tonight for that I filed the points with a dollar bill yesterday so the test light should tell me when I am getting power all I know is that it should blink on and off! They looked ok and weren't burned so I may replace the coil and condenser for good measures and then start testing I should have spark tonight if all goes as planned

[Pullstart 59,462]

Filed the points with a dollar bill?  Are you in the HVAC industry?  We taught plumbers to clean flame sense rods on water heaters with dollar bills (50's or 100's if that's all they have) because they will polish instead of scratch.

[LFR 39]

im in high school! But my grandpa taught me how to! I went and bought a new TestFlight because my old one burned out and the alligator clip finally broke! And I bought a fuel filter too!

Hopefully I can finally get spark tonight and then I would be in business!

[LFR 39]

Ok so I replaced my coil and have power on positive and negative, I clean the points and set the gap with a wire connector because my feeler gauges are gone! For some reason on the - side I have straight power and not flickering power? But the points are spotless? So what is my problem? Unless they are gapped wrong? What is my problem?

I HAVE SPARK!!!!!!!!!! Yay! Now it's time for gas, hopefully the fuel pump isn't bad!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,474]

For some reason the points are not grounding the coil  when closed.

 

Try a jumper from the wire on the points to the chassis ground or engine block. That should take the coil (-) to 0 volts.

If it does not do it the wire from the coil (-) to the points has a break in it.

If it does do it the point contacts are not making a connection to ground. Try sticking a small flat screwdriver between the contacts to see it that completes the circuit.

 

Try grounding the coil (-) terminal to prove it can be done.

 

Garry

[chip61 655]

Do you have 12v at the coil?? Power in should be on the + side of the coil, condenser and points should be on - side of coil.

[LFR 39]

Yay! Major progress tonight! It will be running tomorrow! So I have compression and spark! Now I just need fuel which I would have done tonight but my fuel lines were so hard I couldn't put a filter in them or a **** off valve! So back to the parts store in the morning for line and then flush the tank, add gas and see if I can get the pump to work! How should I prime the fuel pump so the tractor will run, or does it pick it up pretty quick? 

[LFR 39]

Those stars should say shut not****