310-8 chewing through belts... Please Help!

[bizzo15 52]

So at the end of last summer I picked up a 1990 310-8 because I wanted the tall chute single stage blower and the seller wouldn't separate.  My plan was to just sell of the tractor and mower deck and keep the blower for my 312-8.  Long story short after using it a few times to make sure it was a solid tractor it has some mechanical issues I need to attend to before I feel confident to sell it to someone.  The issue I'm currently trying to fix and need the communities help with is that when I first got it after the second time mowing with the tractor it slowed down and would no longer climb grades.  I bought a replacement Toro drive belt off amazon and swapped it out.  I continued mowing with it for the season and for the next couple of mows it would climbs grades just fine.  Then one day when I was using it I noticed it was getting jerky when I'd put it in gear and release the clutch, then I smelled burning belt.  I shut it down and looked it over and the drive belt is frayed pretty good and was super hot.  I ended up putting it in the shed and finishing out the season with the 312.  Today I decided to pull it out of the shed so I can start to go through it and get it ready for sale.  After looking it over I've noticed the belt popped off one of the pulley's.  It's not the pulley on the transaxle but the second one closest to the engine.  I'm guessing it's frozen and that's what's causing my issues.  What does it take to replace the pulley and bearings?  I hopped on parts tree but it wasn't obvious to me which parts I needed to order in order to fix this.  I already have another  OE Wheel Horse belt to put on it but I want to make sure I repair everything properly before i slap another belt on there and shred it.

 

Thanks for any help/recommendations!

[Phatboy 565]

Is it the ideler/ clutch pully ? When you push clutch i. Does it move ? If so bearing and pully are all one piece ,, and is readily available from any tractor store ,, my wheel horse dealer has them ,, they are a wheel horse / Kubota/ bobcat dealer now,, but yea a easy pully to get ,, just bring it woth you and match ot up, there are many manufacture that make a simular pully,, i dont habe the number off hand but you can get it off the toro master parts list,,, sorry couldnt help more than that ,, bud ,,  

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

 

 

Looks like the part number is 7451, but I also found this. I didn't read it, but it shows a gas shock on the idler
 

 

https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails/?id=2521

 

 

About $18 on ebay ($13 _ shipping) and about the same at Jack's Small Engines

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301221862189?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Edited April 20, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[bizzo15 52]

11 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

Looks like the part number is 7451, but I also found this. I didn't read it, but it shows a gas shock on the idler
 

 

https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails/?id=2521

 

 

About $18 on ebay ($13 _ shipping) and about the same at Jack's Small Engines

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301221862189?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Ahhhh ok, this is why I was confused I was looking under "drive belt and pulley's" not "clutch, brake, speed control linkage" good to see the part is reasonable and readily available. While I've got the tractor apart id like to replace the shifter boot as its looking worn out but I was having trouble finding that as well l, anyone know what category that's under?

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

3 hours ago, bizzo15 said:

While I've got the tractor apart id like to replace the shifter boot as its looking worn out but I was having trouble finding that as well l, anyone know what category that's under?

 

 

Good question. I don't see the rear transaxle at all for an 8 speed.

 

https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails/?id=2521

 

Part number 3577

https://www.rcpw.com/toro-parts/genuine/3577.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw0dy4BRCuuL_e5MeqmNABEiQAq8iNI0zRX-O1fDGUDMp_UNC59bDVnDfOawtOZOYyT7a2bysaAovV8P8HAQ

 

[bizzo15 52]

6 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

Good question. I don't see the rear transaxle at all for an 8 speed.

 

https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails/?id=2521

 

Part number 3577

https://www.rcpw.com/toro-parts/genuine/3577.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw0dy4BRCuuL_e5MeqmNABEiQAq8iNI0zRX-O1fDGUDMp_UNC59bDVnDfOawtOZOYyT7a2bysaAovV8P8HAQ

 

OK, well at least I know it's not just me.  I find the Toro parts viewer poorly categorized/organized. For example, I have a frozen choke cable on the same tractor and I figured if I could get the choke cable cheap enough I would just replace it... problem is I can't find it anywhere in the parts viewer.  I'm used to look at Polaris parts viewers and they seem much more user friendly than the Toro stuff. </rant>

 

Anyways thanks for locating the part # of that boot!

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/toro/112214

 

A universal choke cable might fit and is probably cheaper

[doc724 924]

When I bought my 314-8, the owner had moved to FL and the son was selling it.  He claimed it would go slow up hill.  I drove it and confirmed the problem.  Suspecting a bad belt, I bought it.  When I got it home and removed the belt cover, I quickly noticed the problem.  Someone had removed the drive pulley from the transaxle (or it had fallen off) and put it on backwards.  I suspect the latter since a square head set screw holds the pulley in place and it was replaced with a socket head set screw.  Needless to say, half of the belt was worn off.  A new belt and less than 30 minutes of work and I had a nice under 400 hr machine with a nice deck for $550.  Never overlook the obvious

 

[bizzo15 52]

Ok, I'm dragging this back up from the dead, almost a year later I finally got the time and the space in the garage to tear back into this to figure out what's going on and fix it for good.  I'm going to attach some pictures so you can see the the belt and tell me what you think is going on.

 

If you look in the first pic you can see where the belt popped off the pulley, the only possible way I can see this happening is the clutch being depressed and the belt somehow jumping over that metal "guard" piece above the idler.  The second pic is when I put the belt back into the idler pulley grove, is it just me or does the belt seem looser than it should be.  The third pic is a shot of behind the PTO clutch area, it appears with the clutch not engage that the belt is loose and rubbing on that piece of metal there.  Also with the belt removed from the idler and transmission pulley they both spin, the idler pulley spins real easily but is kinda noisy and the transmission pulley doesn't spin as freely but is smooth and makes zero noise.  Also can someone verify so I know I'm not crazy that 7473 is the correct v belt for a 31-10K801 with the 8 speed transaxle?  Thanks a bunch guys

[bizzo15 52]

Ok so I'm going to replace the idler pulley just because it's cheap enough and I have to make an order on partstree for some other stuff anyways.  What else is the system could be causing this issue though?  My only concern is putting this back together and destroying another brand new belt, I'd like to replace anything that could be causing the issue so I don't tear this apart again.  As far as I can tell the springs and all the linkage appear in working order, what else should I check?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

If the damper behind your idler pulley is an air shock it can be cleaned up to restore it's ability to function. They get full of dust which limits their travel. A good cleaning with soap and water should do it. Don't apply any oil lube to it as that will just collect more dust.

It may be a good idea to replace the clutch return spring that is on the left side hooked into the axle housing. They do get weak.

 

Garry

[bizzo15 52]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

If the damper behind your idler pulley is an air shock it can be cleaned up to restore it's ability to function. They get full of dust which limits their travel. A good cleaning with soap and water should do it. Don't apply any oil lube to it as that will just collect more dust.

It may be a good idea to replace the clutch return spring that is on the left side hooked into the axle housing. They do get weak.

 

Garry

Is the damper you speak of? I don't see anything else near the idler resembling a damper besides this. Thanks for the help. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

That's it.

Garry

[bizzo15 52]

Okay perfect, I'll order up the necessary parts today and get to work.  That damper looks like it has quite a bit of adjustment to it.  Is there a method to getting it adjusted perfectly when a new belt goes on?

[doc724 924]

I think item 53 was Toro's first attempt at using a damper to slowly let out the clutch.  It was later replaced by a gas strut.  The older machines do not have either.  My guess is that your belt is frayed because the idler pulley is wobbly due to age.  When the clutch is depressed you can often hear the idler smacking the belt cover (especially if you installed it too close).  Look at the inside of the belt cover, you will see normal belt scuffing but check for signs of grooves as well.  I second what Garry said about replacing the clutch return spring.  I always keep a spare on hand.

[bizzo15 52]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, doc724 said:

I think item 53 was Toro's first attempt at using a damper to slowly let out the clutch.  It was later replaced by a gas strut.  The older machines do not have either.  My guess is that your belt is frayed because the idler pulley is wobbly due to age.  When the clutch is depressed you can often hear the idler smacking the belt cover (especially if you installed it too close).  Look at the inside of the belt cover, you will see normal belt scuffing but check for signs of grooves as well.  I second what Garry said about replacing the clutch return spring.  I always keep a spare on hand.

Ok I will check those items when my replacement parts get here, thanks!

[bizzo15 52]

So my parts came in yesterday for this and I had some free time so I decided to work on it.  I replaced the idler pulley and the clutch return spring as well as gave the clutch damper a good cleaning.  I put the new belt on and while it seems to have more tension on it than before it still seems loose compared to my 314-8.  I decided to study my 314-8 to see if I could notice a difference between how that's setup and my 310-8 in hopes of a clue as to why this belt doesn't seem to have the right amount of tension.  I noticed that the idler pulley and arm on the 314-8 sit further back on the 314-8 than the 310-8.  What I mean by this is that the arm that holds the idler pulley on is perpendicular with the ground on my 314-8 and on my 310-8 it's at roughly a 75 degree angle with the ground. I looked over all the linkage and I don't see how I could adjust this but it definitely seems to explain why i'm not getting the correction tension on the belt.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

Here is a pic of the idler arm before i replaced the pulley, notice the angle of the arm.

[bizzo15 52]

Anybody have any suggestions... I"m stumped.

[953 nut 51,680]

It appears that the damper is holding the idler arm too far forward, adjust it back some and see if it helps. It appears that the arm that pushes against it is chewing the belt.

[bizzo15 52]

9 hours ago, 953 nut said:

It appears that the damper is holding the idler arm too far forward, adjust it back some and see if it helps. It appears that the arm that pushes against it is chewing the belt.

I removed the damper and the position of the arm and idler did not change, that's what has me stumped.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

Go back up to the parts picture you posted with the red circle around the idler pulley. Follow the shaft across to the left side of the tractor. Roll pin 17 can shear and allow the lever to reposition it's self on the shaft causing the problem you have.

If the clutch pedal's travel is obstructed by the foot rest or rust on the shaft is another cause.

The adjustable trunnion on the clutch rod will only affect the positon of the clutch pedal for short and tall operators.

 

Garry

[doc724 924]

Check which hole the trunion is in on the other side of the clutch rod.  This affects clutch free play and if the clutch is all the way back and there is no tension in the clutch spring, the belt will never tighten up.

[bizzo15 52]

2 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Go back up to the parts picture you posted with the red circle around the idler pulley. Follow the shaft across to the left side of the tractor. Roll pin 17 can shear and allow the lever to reposition it's self on the shaft causing the problem you have.

If the clutch pedal's travel is obstructed by the foot rest or rust on the shaft is another cause.

The adjustable trunnion on the clutch rod will only affect the positon of the clutch pedal for short and tall operators.

 

Garry

Ok I will give that a look because that seems likely.  I tried taking the side panel off the left side of the tractor the other day but I couldn't because of the attachment lever, is it easy to remove that lever from the tractor so I can get a good look at everything on the left side?

[doc724 924]

You do not have to remove the lift lever to remove the side panel.  3 screws and one bolt  hold the panel in place.  Take them all out and the panel will pretty much fall out of place.  The seat pan may have to be removed as I think that the panel is captured by it .  To get the panel off, you have to use the goofy hole in the panel that the lift lever goes through and move it around a bit until is lifts straight up.  I cannot remember if the lift lever is locked in the up position or in the down position when you do it

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

Perhaps with a second pair of hands or some wood and clamps you could lock the pedal from moving. Then try and twist the idler pulley and the lever it is on to try and determine if the pin is sheared. Maybe try and pry it back to where you think it should be and if a looseness is found the pin is sheared.

The item 17 is 7841 replaced by 933190 is a 3/16" x 1-1/4" spiral pin. This is formed by multiple wraps of metal and stronger that a roll pin that is a single wrap.

 

Garry