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Why I don't buy Garden Tractor AG tires

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It doesn't matter if they are Deestone, Carlisle or Cheng Shin or whatever most Garden Tractor AG tires are junk. First, they have very little lug height to begin with, so much so that many of you have found turf tires with chains often out perform AGs, Second, within a short amount of time with use most of these tires made for us suckers wear down over half of that original shallow lug height. Lastly, They are misleading on the ply ratings as they list these tires as 4 ply "rated" when in fact they are not 4 ply, but soft eraser like rubber that looks cool and will have you buying more tires when they give out. There is a pair of 26x12-12 Carlisle AGs on eBay right now that aren't that old and in good shape except they are almost slicks (pics attached). If you never use the tires and just want them on a machine that sits in a garage, on a trailer, or just tools around the yard the cheap worthless GT tires most companies offer will be fine, but if you want something that will last a lifetime of hard work most times you will have to opt for a ATV/RTV or off road tire made for real use. I post this because I do not want people to waste money to get something that looks great, but doesn't perform. Wasting money should not be a habit, our wives will torture us about it. 

carlisle super lug.jpg

carlisle super lug2.jpg

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I'd agree tires are not made like they use to be and agree that ags don't wear real well, but I have to wonder what kind of base they're being driven on if they wear down real fast?

After all, ags are designed to be run in the dirt.  I'd think if they didn't see pavement or concrete, they'd wear pretty good?

Soft rubber helps with traction, and traction/digging is what ags are for.

Just guessing here, as I'm running turfs and ATV tires on my workers.

 

The winter chain thing is a whole nother discussion.  More about surface contact than rubber hardness I believe.

 

Just like shoes, all tires have a purpose.  Just like there is no perfect shoe for every use, there is also no perfect tire for all uses.

Ags

Turf

ATV

Smooth

Ribbed

Diamond

Even variations within each of the above.  They all have a different purpose.

Now just think if like shoes, you had a closet full of tires, and needed to change those tires each time you used your tractor.

Gonna till the garden today...put on the ags.

Gonna mow today...put on the turfs.

Gonna go for a trail ride today...put on the ATV tires.

Gonna head down to the asphalt races today...put on the slicks.

Gonna lounge around the garage today... :D

Edited by RedRanger
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I have had these AG bar type tires on my 520H for approximately 8-9 yrs now and I bought them used on top of that...they spring till the garden, did 1/4 mile long dirt/gravel driveway repairs, mowing all summer and winter snow removal (the 1/4 mile dirt driveway) and now the asphalt drive here and dragging felled trees for firewood...still about the same as when I bought them...and they aren't Carlisle either,Jeff.

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Ive had bkt ag tires on my b-80 for a few years. Mine havent worn at all. I do some road riding also. they seem to have worked good for me.

Edited by scotty
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For me it's ags all the way, wear isn't an issue because I'm on grass or garden, on the garden there's no comparison and on the lawn, mowing and towing a 42" sweeper  wide ags just don't slip. Chains for snow/ice different topic.  Just my opinion.   :coffee:

Edited by farmer
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49 minutes ago, scotty said:

Ive had bkt ag tires on my b-80 for a few years. Mine havent worn at all. I do some road riding also. they seem to have worked good for me.

You are right, I have BKT trenchers on my Massey MF-14 for years with little wear, but mine are 6 ply and weren't cheap, however I do not like the thin lugs spaced close together

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I have had these AG bar type tires on my 520H for approximately 8-9 yrs now and I bought them used on top of that...they spring till the garden, did 1/4 mile long dirt/gravel driveway repairs, mowing all summer and winter snow removal (the 1/4 mile dirt driveway) and now the asphalt drive here and dragging felled trees for firewood...still about the same as when I bought them...and they aren't Carlisle either,Jeff.

IMAG1912.jpg

IMAG1914.jpg

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Yeah, but in 8-9 years, they are pretty well weather cracked on the sides

1 hour ago, RedRanger said:

I'd agree tires are not made like they use to be and agree that ags don't wear real well, but I have to wonder what kind of base they're being driven on if they wear down real fast?

After all, ags are designed to be run in the dirt.  I'd think if they didn't see pavement or concrete, they'd wear pretty good?

Soft rubber helps with traction, and traction/digging is what ags are for.

Just guessing here, as I'm running turfs and ATV tires on my workers.

 

The winter chain thing is a whole nother discussion.  More about surface contact than rubber hardness I believe.

 

Just like shoes, all tires have a purpose.  Just like there is no perfect shoe for every use, there is also no perfect tire for all uses.

Ags

Turf

ATV

Smooth

Ribbed

Diamond

Even variations within each of the above.  They all have a different purpose.

Now just think if like shoes, you had a closet full of tires, and needed to change those tires each time you used your tractor.

Gonna till the garden today...put on the ags.

Gonna mow today...put on the turfs.

Gonna go for a trail ride today...put on the ATV tires.

Gonna head down to the asphalt races today...put on the slicks.

Gonna lounge around the garage today... :D

The problem is many AGs like deestone and carlisle don't start out with deep lugs like a tractor, made more for show than go

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Yeah i agree i paid quite a bit for my bkts but i think they were worth it i like them alot more than my cheaper deestones

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i've got bkt tr315's on mine, haven't had them on that long(only last fall). they are quite hard rubber. 

we also run bkt's on our bigger tractors one of which gets used mostly for transport and on there they hold up really well.

most of the oldtimer tractors over here run bkt's because they're pretty damn good for the money

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Weather cracked when I bought them used it's not a show rig it's a work horse...so let's go the orginal post about wasting money on AG tires...so for $50/pr and 8-9 yrs later of my use and they're still holding air and 5 gallons of fluid and rolling my tractor around...there was no waste of money...and it's not my vehicle driving up and down the interstate @ 70 mph + everyday...why worry over weather cracking they make tubes if needed for my 4-7 mph jaunts up the driveway garden and yard...and when the wife's high $ Michelin tires weather cracked after 2 years let's talk about a waste of money...Jeff

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I bought some duro ags a couple of years ago for my Raider 10 , & I guess I must have driven about 1 mile on them so far and now they have cracked quite badly , I think I will consider trying out some ATV tires next time round .

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Might I add this while researching for new tires for in the future...a company called OTR...ATV/UTV style compound on the 22 Mag...

Screenshot_2016-03-29-12-32-49.png

Screenshot_2016-03-29-12-31-11.png

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I believe it comes down too. Are you buying the right tire for your needs? Are you buying a cheap tire and expecting the performance and durability of a high quality tire. If so you may be let down. I do believe the cheap bar style tires do fill a niche in the GT world.      

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2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Might I add this while researching for new tires for in the future...a company called OTR...ATV/UTV style compound on the 22 Mag...

Screenshot_2016-03-29-12-32-49.png

Screenshot_2016-03-29-12-31-11.png

Well the 22 mag has very little tread height, it wouldn't perform well in loose soil where you need an AG, again "4 Ply Rating", that is not a 4 ply tire. The Lawn Trac just has a modified AG tread, that again, has no lug height, that tire won't perform in many garden tractor condition. Those conditions do not include use on dry grass without hills, flat asphalt or pavement. 

17 minutes ago, slammer302 said:

I believe it comes down too. Are you buying the right tire for your needs? Are you buying a cheap tire and expecting the performance and durability of a high quality tire. If so you may be let down. I do believe the cheap bar style tires do fill a niche in the GT world.      

Yep they sure do, like I said in my original post, if you don't need an AG tire, but want your machine to look cool those work fine

2 hours ago, neil said:

I bought some duro ags a couple of years ago for my Raider 10 , & I guess I must have driven about 1 mile on them so far and now they have cracked quite badly , I think I will consider trying out some ATV tires next time round .

Duro makes many different levels or quality of tire, the one  they make that I did find good was one they designed for ATVs that were 6 ply rated, and were rated as use at highway speeds. The Duro Frontier

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Weather cracked when I bought them used it's not a show rig it's a work horse...so let's go the orginal post about wasting money on AG tires...so for $50/pr and 8-9 yrs later of my use and they're still holding air and 5 gallons of fluid and rolling my tractor around...there was no waste of money...and it's not my vehicle driving up and down the interstate @ 70 mph + everyday...why worry over weather cracking they make tubes if needed for my 4-7 mph jaunts up the driveway garden and yard...and when the wife's high $ Michelin tires weather cracked after 2 years let's talk about a waste of money...Jeff

Why I never buy Michelin's any more, they went to making junk tires, might as well use Firestone. Well then you did good if you bought them used!!!! but you left out what you paid for them.

3 hours ago, C-101plowerpower said:

i've got bkt tr315's on mine, haven't had them on that long(only last fall). they are quite hard rubber. 

we also run bkt's on our bigger tractors one of which gets used mostly for transport and on there they hold up really well.

most of the oldtimer tractors over here run bkt's because they're pretty damn good for the money

I used BKT on My International 424 and was very impressed with them, the trenchers are okay, but like I said the lugs are really thin and close together, if they were a little thicker, and taller, they would be better, but they have not worn hardly at all in 4 years

Edited by tractorhogg
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5 hours ago, RedRanger said:

I'd agree tires are not made like they use to be and agree that ags don't wear real well, but I have to wonder what kind of base they're being driven on if they wear down real fast?

After all, ags are designed to be run in the dirt.  I'd think if they didn't see pavement or concrete, they'd wear pretty good?

Soft rubber helps with traction, and traction/digging is what ags are for.

Just guessing here, as I'm running turfs and ATV tires on my workers.

 

The winter chain thing is a whole nother discussion.  More about surface contact than rubber hardness I believe.

 

Just like shoes, all tires have a purpose.  Just like there is no perfect shoe for every use, there is also no perfect tire for all uses.

Ags

Turf

ATV

Smooth

Ribbed

Diamond

Even variations within each of the above.  They all have a different purpose.

Now just think if like shoes, you had a closet full of tires, and needed to change those tires each time you used your tractor.

Gonna till the garden today...put on the ags.

Gonna mow today...put on the turfs.

Gonna go for a trail ride today...put on the ATV tires.

Gonna head down to the asphalt races today...put on the slicks.

Gonna lounge around the garage today... :D

Nah, don't change tires, just buy more tractors :D

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9 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

Well the 22 mag has very little tread height, it wouldn't perform well in loose soil where you need an AG, again "4 Ply Rating", that is not a 4 ply tire. The Lawn Trac just has a modified AG tread, that again, has no lug height, that tire won't perform in many garden tractor condition. Those conditions do not include use on dry grass without hills, flat asphalt or pavement. 

Yep they sure do, like I said in my original post, if you don't need an AG tire, but want your machine to look cool those work fine

Duro makes many different levels or quality of tire, the one  they make that I did find good was one they designed for ATVs that were 6 ply rated, and were rated as use at highway speeds. The Duro Frontier

Why I never buy Michelin's any more, they went to making junk tires, might as well use Firestone. Well then you did good if you bought them used!!!! but you left that out of your post. and what you paid for them.

I used BKT on My International 424 and was very impressed with them, the trenchers are okay, but like I said the lugs are really thin and close together, if they were a little thicker, and taller, they would be better, but they have not worn hardly at all in 4 years

 

i would think the thinner lugs are better because they dig into the ground better, as for the closer spacing, less change for a lug not being in the ground when needed

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5 minutes ago, C-101plowerpower said:

 

i would think the thinner lugs are better because they dig into the ground better, as for the closer spacing, less change for a lug not being in the ground when needed

If they were better they would use them on big tractors as well, but I don't think they are better, because they are more like to bend, especially if they were taller. I don't think they need to be alot wider, but they are really thin compared to other AGs. Speaking of big tractors, they do not generally use wide tires on larger utility tractors, just like they didn't use wide tires on military vehicles or older GTs, because wider tires aren't always better, they just look cool. Wider tires are often known as flotation tires, that is the last thing I want my Ag tire to do, float.

Edited by tractorhogg

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It would be interesting to see which performed best in a pull against each other on grass, turf/chains vs ags.

Without the chains it wouldn't be a competition. :coffee:

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Hmmm I'm pretty sure I wrote $50/pr used... And as far as flat dry grass I don't know where you find much of that in WV/VA...and yes I do think I would/do prefer a bit of flotation from my tires less tracking of the lawn when it rains for days on end and one can't now it when working 6-7 days a week on mid shift...we still have an original fenderless CUB CADET with the skinny tires from 1978-90's used to mow and garden spent about as much time unsticking from sinking on loose soil or damp sod....so just my experiences...and yes if I had flat dry ground only to mow then turfs/ trail type tires would be all I need,Jeff.

IMAG1753.jpg

Edited by WVHillbilly520H
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23 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

If they were better they would use them on big tractors as well, but I don't think they are better, because they are more like to bend, especially if they were taller. I don't think they need to be alot wider, but they are really thin compared to other AGs. Speaking of big tractors, they do not generally use wide tires on larger utility tractors, just like they didn't use wide tires on military vehicles or older GTs, because wider tires aren't always better, they just look cool. Wider tires are often known as flotation tires, that is the last thing I want my Ag tire to do, float.

 

Unless you're on a lawn.  :handgestures-thumbupright:  Then the wider footprint flotation tire is better.

If you're in a field or garden, you would want a narrow ag with deep powerful lugs.

If you're mowing a yard, you'd want a wider footprint and smaller lugs to not destroy the grass.

 

You wouldn't take a 12 gauge with buckshot to hunt quail I hope?

Tire design fits a need.

23 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

If they were better they would use them on big tractors as well, but I don't think they are better, because they are more like to bend, especially if they were taller. I don't think they need to be alot wider, but they are really thin compared to other AGs. Speaking of big tractors, they do not generally use wide tires on larger utility tractors, just like they didn't use wide tires on military vehicles or older GTs, because wider tires aren't always better, they just look cool. Wider tires are often known as flotation tires, that is the last thing I want my Ag tire to do, float.

Actually, big tractors do have options for thinner lugs as well as thicker lugs, different lug designs, and different variations in width.

Usually proportional to the tractor size.  Flotation ags look nothing like lug ags.  Same thing for garden tractors.

Purpose creates design.

Each of us may have different needs.

 

I'll use Green for the Dramatic Effect!

John-Deere-Flotation-e1410304285179.png?context=bWFzdGVyfGltYWdlc3wyNzQ0MTd8aW1

tractor-img3.jpg

 

Edited by RedRanger
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1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Hmmm I'm pretty sure I wrote $50/pr used... And as far as flat dry grass I don't know where you find much of that in WV/VA...and yes I do think I would/do prefer a bit of flotation from my tires less tracking of the lawn when it rains for days on end and one can't now it when working 6-7 days a week on mid shift...we still have an original fenderless CUB CADET with the skinny tires from 1978-90's used to mow and garden spent about as much time unsticking from sinking on loose soil or damp sod....so just my experiences...and yes if I had flat dry ground only to mow then turfs/ trail type tires would be all I need,Jeff.

IMAG1753.jpg

Okay, I'm just an dumb okie that doesn't know anything. we okay, thanks. I was trying to give a little food for thought to people contemplating buying AG tires, but obviously buying 50 dollar tires is the way to go, again sorry. I'll refrain from adding any experience from buying 20 sets or over 4,000 dollars worth of tires in the last 4 years for machines that I use to make a living, not a good living about 14,000 a year, but nonetheless the primary source of my family income comes from me plowing and tilling gardens. I just didn't realize how little I knew my working my machines, not just riding them around in my non-existent leisure time. I would quote your post to show that you did not mention that they were 50.00, not that it matters, because I would probably still be wrong.

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5 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Weather cracked when I bought them used it's not a show rig it's a work horse...so let's go the orginal post about wasting money on AG tires...so for $50/pr and 8-9 yrs later of my use and they're still holding air and 5 gallons of fluid and rolling my tractor around...

I digress, but here's my first post with price paid...and no I don't make my living using my AG tires, my job pays for my cheap AG tires that has lasted longer than some, I bought my first :wh: brand new but if you were to check some my other threads I'm sort of cheap skate buying a 282 hr 523Dxi for $800 not running at the moment but hey we all have are opinions if it's worth it or not ...red or green bowtie or oval old or new USA or overseas...if it gets the job done for you and the price you like then in the end that's what really matters but if something fails for one doesn't mean it does for all unless there's lots of data to back it up that there really is something wrong with that particular product...then we all should chime in with respect to pros and cons of such things...I work in the automotive industry everyone says GM and Chrysler were the only ones to take bailout $ technically yes the big one but Ford did to just not as much and in the same form...that being said...it all boils down to one's personal opinion what tires or products fits their needs and budget....

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The most experience I have with Ag tires are the ones on my son's 67 Lawn Ranger.    I KNOW, Its not a real work machine, but he's rode on them for hours at different shows,  rode on them all day last fall at a local plowing event here in Minnesota and even got it stuck...and last spring he literally put a few miles on them riding on the neighborhood sidewalks..

Still look like new with those "Nubbies" still attatched.   

 

Not arguing, just saying:)DSC_0432.thumb.JPG.4bc3f1ccf3b1c8c1d9ce234cb67c886e.JPG

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49 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

it all boils down to one's personal opinion what tires or products fits their needs and budget....

:text-yeahthat:

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