Wiring diagram 416-8

[richmondred01 2,205]

 model 73420 serial 5900192.

someone has cut and rerouted wires. It's a mess and currently not charging. 

anyone have a wiring diagram with the color codes of the wires. 

Thanks. 

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

52 minutes ago, richmondred01 said:

 model 73420 serial 5900192.

someone has cut and rerouted wires. It's a mess and currently not charging. 

anyone have a wiring diagram with the color codes of the wires. 

Thanks. 

 

There are links to three different manuals in this post
 

I think this one is yours

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/2529-tractor-1996-416-8-early-ipl-wiringpdf/

Edited March 10, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[richmondred01 2,205]

Doesn't show the two wires that have been cut. One is grey coming off the rectifier (pig tailed) ans a white wire coming off the coil. I believe these wires are causing an open circuit leaving it not charging. 

Also the ignition switch doesn't work. You tur the key on and hit a starter button which is hooked to the the positive side of the battery and the starter. 

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

White wire appears to go from coil to 30A fuse. It appears to have provided power to the starter relay, so they probably re-routed it to the push button

The only gray wire I see is on the test switch

Someone will be along shortly who knows, I'm sure.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

this may offer a good visual starting point

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,491]

This model should have an Onan engine.

Even Toro was confused because this detailed wiring diagram shows point and condenser ignition.

Garry

[richmondred01 2,205]

2 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

This model should have an Onan engine.

Even Toro was confused because this detailed wiring diagram shows point and condenser ignition.

Garry

It is an onan p216g. I will post some photos of the wires in question. Thanks.

[cleat 4,947]

As for the charge circuit. I have made all of my Onan's like the 1988 style for charging.

 

These ran a wire from the output of the regulator directly to the starter solenoid where it connects to the large battery cable.

 

There is a weathertight fuse holder with a 30 amp fuse inline just before it connects to the battery cable.

 

This takes all that extra load off of the 9 pin connector. The 30 amp fuse in your fuse block will no longer be used.

 

I have enclosed the earlier wiring as used on a 520 with the Onan engine to show this.

wiring.pdf

 

As for the start not working properly, it could be a bad safety switch, ignition switch, 9 pin connector at engine could be bad, or simply a cut wire. You will need to get a test light and start following the circuit until you find the break.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by cleat

[Racinbob 10,276]

I would throw the color coding away for now. Electricity is colorblind. With it being a cobbled up mess who knows what wire now goes where now and assuming just because it's that color can get you in trouble and make things worse. Just take it one circuit at a time and make sure it's properly wired. Before you know it you'll be done.

[richmondred01 2,205]

The one wire is coming off the ac side of the rectifier that I have labeled 1.

the white wire is coming off the coil post closest to the firewall which has three wires attached. Both of these wires have been cut and taped up. 

 

[richmondred01 2,205]

Turns out the grey wire is for the tach and the white (really yellow just faded) is for the engine temp. The 416 has neither. So that mystery is solved. Next is to figure out the short or open circuit.

heres what I know, the stater is fine and is producing plenty of amps. The rectifier is fine be caused I switched it out with my 520 and all is well with it on the 520. When I put it in the 520 it works fine and produces about 13.5-14 volts. 

Pit appears that someone has replaced the 30 amp fuse holder and also installed a push button to start because either the switch was bad or a wiring issue. 

The push button requires the key to be on and is attached to the solenoid at the the started and the positive side of the battery.

i put a new switch in and no go.

any thoughts would be welcome. I can't stand electrical issues. 

Thanks

 

[richmondred01 2,205]

The block fuse 30 amp was melted. Prior owner wired a separate fuse. What he didn't take into account was the 30 amp fuse is linked and contacted to the 25 amp fuse that resides next to it in the fuse block. Therefore the relay as well as the 30 amp fuse could be removed and it still started and ran. The b wire on the rectifier also is part of this circuit. I believe that may be the issue. 

Anyone come across this before?

[Martin 2,130]

Other than fixing your fuse issue, I would go straight to the 9 pin connector down by the engine oil filter. Your non charging and start issues are more often than not 9 pin connector issues. Look for one of the pins to be burnt out or not making a connection, it will be the heaviest gauge one, most likely a red wire. The connector block will most likely need replacing as well. This connector position will be one of the 'corner' terminals on the plug. Other than melting fuse blocks/terminals, the 9 pin connector blocks are the biggest electrical pain in the a## on these models. I have dealt with all 3 of mine.

 

[doc724 924]

To add to what Martin has said, if you are going to fix this, make sure you get the correct crimping tool and pin removing tool.  You can get them on line many places.  I also recall that Bob Maynard sells the connectors and maybe even the tools (check the RS vendors section).  I always keep a couple of spares of the connectors on hand.  The 416 uses two per machine, one one the engine harness, the other on the harness that goes to the idiot lights.

[richmondred01 2,205]

Nine pin was replaced prior to me. 

The fuse connector block has a 30,25and 15 amp fuse. The 30 and 25 are connected with a metal tab.  I'm having issues with replacing these. Any ideas

 

 

When they rewired  the 30 amp (white wires) the metal tab connecting the 30 amp to the 25 amp (red wires) was eliminated. I believe this is causing my charging issue. How do I go about maintaining that connection with separate fuses?

[richmondred01 2,205]

For all future readers the issue is fixed by installing a new fuse block which I got a pep boys for $6.00. The 30 and 25 amp fuses.need to be linked together. It resolved the charging issue and the key switch.