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tractorhogg

Why Soft rubber is not Good on AGs

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tractorhogg

If you have ever seen an old big tractor tire, you may have noticed that the tire may be heavily weather cracked and worn, but the lugs are still fairly high, at least on a good tire, that is because the rubber used on those lugs is extremely hard, not always so on little tractor lugs, I'm posting a picture of a tractor with Deestone AGs that aren't very old and you can see the lugs have worn down considerably, I'm also posting a picture of a old style Carlisle lug , both the Deestone and the Carlisle did not have really decent lugs to begin with, but because they were soft rubber they wore down fairly quick with use and they become useless, heck even when new they are not that good or deep a lug. I know many people here have tried AGs in the winter and either needed to put chains on them or go back to turfs with chains, AG tires are not always an optimal solution in many winter conditions. Another tire that is less than optimal is the skid steer loader design tire, that tire was made for extreme weight conditions and has an extremely stiff side wall that makes it a horrible choice for GT applications, coupled with the fact that its lugs are generally made for a solid surface such as asphalt cement or at least smooth hard pack they are generally not good in field or winter usage. The learning curve on tires is not easy, because we don't use our machines commercially, same for our vehicles, we mate our tires to our general driving conditions, but if we were driving commercially in various environments or professionally in different sport and racing applications our tire would need to be mated to those conditions. All in all though, whether we are talking about small tractor tires or auto/truck tires we generally get what the manufactures makes, that is why we are buying freakin 20 inch tires for pickups and SUVs, because the manufacturer says we need them, no we don't, they want to sell them, and we are dumb enough to buy them.

newoldtires-1.jpg

new carlisle.jpg

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RedRanger

Tires wear down and wear out.  Fact of life.  :text-imsorry:

Just like shoes, they all have different purposes.

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Pollack Pete
40 minutes ago, RedRanger said:

Tires wear down and wear out.  Fact of life.  :text-imsorry:

Just like shoes, they all have different purposes.

I agree.Tires are consumables.I haven't bought a tractor yet with brand new rubber on it,and I have about 80 tractors.When I'm fixing one to use,I grin and bare it and buy new tires.For a while,I think the UPS man figured I had a tractor tire business here.He was bringing 8 and 12 tires at a time.Expensive? Sure.But I like new tires on my tractors.Wish I could put new tires on them all.

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pfrederi

With 15 horses, I run what ever tires came on them until the are cracked and leaking...then i put tubes in them and run them some more.  I have purchased 2 used pairs of Ag tires as I prefer them for 3 seasons on some horses...but not snow/ice. In the last 15 years I think I have bought only 3-4 new front tires only because the originals were bald or cracked so badly I was afraid the tube would fail.

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Aldon

I appreciate the information provided by Tractorhogg to allow members to consider his observations and potentially make more educated choices and not necessarily have to pay the high price to learn by personal expense alla carte so to speak at high cost.

 

In my opinion, he does not appear to be conflicting in opinion that even the harder compound tires will eventually wear out. Just that when choosing tires the hardness of tire compound should be another factor in the decision process along with budget, use, availability etc.

 

 

 

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tractorhogg

Thanks Aldon, I have had to consider tires intended for other vehicles and applications because some of the AG tires made for GT's are often made more for show than go, or are made for pulling applications, which is a very different need than we need for a garden tractor tire. I do find the quality and expertise that goes into the ATV/RTV tires to be of a much higher standard than many GT tires, because of the demand from the consumer for a worthy tire, not just a good looking tire. However  most ATV tires do not hsve a good appearence on a GT, or will work well for a GT, so it is a quest to find that tire that looks good, performs well, and is durable. Much of these same lessons can be related to picking the right mate as well.

Edited by tractorhogg
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tractorhogg
1 hour ago, Pollack Pete said:

I agree.Tires are consumables.I haven't bought a tractor yet with brand new rubber on it,and I have about 80 tractors.When I'm fixing one to use,I grin and bare it and buy new tires.For a while,I think the UPS man figured I had a tractor tire business here.He was bringing 8 and 12 tires at a time.Expensive? Sure.But I like new tires on my tractors.Wish I could put new tires on them all.

A quality tire is far less of a consumable than a poor quality tire. You lose the saving when you need another set in a short time

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can whlvr

as I posted on this in another thread,i put cheap china tires on my skid steer,just on the rear because that's all I could afford at the time,i had to no choice,they will wear out far faster than the originals on the front that are bald,but a very well built tire,but I did know that I was putting cheap tires on,i just didn't know they would wear so fast,but being soft they do work quite well in the snow,jeeze I only paid 135 per tire and im in Canada where everything is way more money than America,the good tires were around 700 bucks a piece,and that's not include install,i did that my self,the deestones must be some soft to wear that fast on a garden tractor,this is good to know for guys wanting to use ags,i too use what ever tires I have,and run chains,its hard to justify new tires for 7 tractors,up here your lookin at nearly 500 a set installed times 7 is too much for my better half,heres a pic of the skid tires,the rears only have 100 hours

20160101_202555.jpg

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ericj

i remember back when i was a kid or just started driving that i was told snow tires were a softer compound for better traction on snow but wore down a lot faster if you ran year around. soo.. does that mean deestone will give better traction on snow, i think that they do grip pretty good in my use of them

 

 

 

 

 

eric j 

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Sparky

I have found that a 2 ply tire gives better traction than the same tread design in a 4 ply (turfs)...something about being "squishy" seems to help the tire conform to the terrain. I don't worry about sticks or something along those lines puncturing my tires like many guys claim...just never seems to happen.....or I don't drive in the same type of places they do.

  That being said....I own a set of the cheapie Deestone ags and they have not seen much use but are well worn and in my opinion never gave me great traction. 

  You get what you pay for.

Mike....

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tractorhogg
40 minutes ago, ericj said:

i remember back when i was a kid or just started driving that i was told snow tires were a softer compound for better traction on snow but wore down a lot faster if you ran year around. soo.. does that mean deestone will give better traction on snow, i think that they do grip pretty good in my use of them

 

 

 

 

 

eric j 

I do not know your age, and that might have been true back in the old days when they had snow tires, but I ran snow tires year around when I was young and broke and I could not wear the dang things out, made the car roar at highway speeds. Snow tires seem to be disappearing from the garages of new car owners these days, not everyone's, but I do think they are starting to go the way of the camera. Being soft is one thing, being of poor quality is another. Much of this poor quality stuff comes from China or overseas and can even be dangerous on vehicles at highway speeds, Even an American company like Firestone had a huge problem with sub standard tires not long ago and many people died. Tractor Supply and many farm stores sell Hi run tires and inner tubes from overseas and I and others can tell you that much of this stuff is of very, very poor quality or has severe quality control issues. It seems many companies have learned that the American consumer for the large part will shop by price over quality in the majority of instances, there is obviously a much larger profit margin in selling an inferior product multiple times than selling a quality product once, so as long as we consumers buy junk products and tools companies will send us lots of coupons in the mail to advertiize these poor products. The irrational part comes when you buy a cheap or inferior product or tool a second time after it has failed, at that point these companies know they can sell you anything they want as far as quality is concerned and you will buy it because it was cheap. Think about this, how many of you could have shelled out 2500.00 for a mower and a plow in 1975, because that is what the high end Wheel Horses were, some were even more. I might remind you that that was not that much less than a standard Chevrolet Malibu, but they were able to sell lots of Wheel Horses, Allis, Bolens John Deere, and many other garden tractors that would have been nearly equal to what a new car cost you today. So how many people out there are buying 20,000 dollar lawn mowers today, not many. Instead they are buying 5,000.00 ZTRs and spending another 5,000.00 over the course of the next 5-19 years trying to keep it running, but the last thing most people will tell you is what they spent keeping a expensive piece of equipment running, because it is embarrassing. I don't have any money, so I don't have to worry about that. I do have people that give me gifts such as tires, for consulting, and I appreciate that very much as I do not ask for anything. I also have a wife that allows me to buy anything I want and do what I think is right and has never so much as said one word about what I do or what I buy. That silence buys a lot of satisfaction at home for both of us, well mostly me.

Edited by tractorhogg
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ericj

the old snow tires i was talking about were their bias-ply tires, when i switched to radial tires pretty much eliminated the need for snow tires. the old straight tread bias-ply tires did very little for traction on anything but dry roads and lets not even mention handling lol

 

 

 

 

 

eric j  

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tractorhogg
1 hour ago, Sparky said:

I have found that a 2 ply tire gives better traction than the same tread design in a 4 ply (turfs)...something about being "squishy" seems to help the tire conform to the terrain. I don't worry about sticks or something along those lines puncturing my tires like many guys claim...just never seems to happen.....or I don't drive in the same type of places they do.

  That being said....I own a set of the cheapie Deestone ags and they have not seen much use but are well worn and in my opinion never gave me great traction. 

  You get what you pay for.

Mike....

Me too, mine were on a 1962 Mercury Comet, and a 1974 Dodge D100, but had bias ply studded snows from Sears. I think they were Allstate brand. I put a set of radials on the front with the rear bias and I was all over the road

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ericj

i ran bias-plys on 67 fury 3, 72 D100 and a couple of 70 dodge darts, in case you couldn't tell i'm a mopar fan and have always been 

 

 

 

eric j 

Edited by ericj
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Tankman

Have seen too many AG's busted badly, soft rubber. One tractor using Goodyear AG's for mid-mount grader blade duty. Excellent.

The Horses use Carlisle Turf tires for mowin' and pushing snow. I get great results using chains on the turf tires. Never any complaints.

My feeling "chains 'n AG's don't mix well."

 

 

Horse_416.jpg

Allis-Front_Ags.jpg

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oldtin 921

I liked you comment Tractorhogg about the cost of tractors in 1975,I paid a little over $2600.00 for a C121 in 79 with a 42RD and a snow/dirt blade and am still using that bad boy today!!

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Phatboy

Yea bit AG's look cooler ...:ROTF:on a serious note ,granted tires like Deestone and alike are made cheaper,, bit for those of us living on a budget simply cant lay out the money for a set of tru-power tires esp when doing alot of things at once like i just did.. So we have to settle for something cheaper for the time being,,until we find the extra cash in the couch or in a old set of pants,, and just hope for the best,, life is what it is sometimes ya just have to make lemonade out of lemons ! Like they say there is a time and a place for everything,,so for me the Deestones are just gonna have to for now,, and from what i habe read on the different sites GT talk etc.. There are alot of ppl having good luck with them ,, is to why i bought them,, so fingers crossed if i get 3 yrs out of them ill be happy,, save for a set of true power in the mean time,,

Edited by Phatboy
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cleat

True snow tires are mandatory in parts Of Canada.

 

I have never seen a road around here shut down due to weather, getting to work late because of the weather is no excuse.

 

I put good snow tires on all of my winter vehicles and have never had a problem.

 

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tractorhogg
11 hours ago, oldtin 921 said:

I liked you comment Tractorhogg about the cost of tractors in 1975,I paid a little over $2600.00 for a C121 in 79 with a 42RD and a snow/dirt blade and am still using that bad boy today!!

That is right Oldtin, and you have proven the adage I give here: If you don't have the money to buy the right product the first time, how will you have the money to buy a poor product more than once. It would seem the budget would bear this out, that the better product is cheaper in the long run and the poor product will cost you more, but this takes not only foresight, but maturity. Cool is neither of those, cool lets you settle for what you get.

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