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formariz

What is destroying my belts?

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I cannot seem to find it but somewhere (and I think it was Wheel Horse related) I have a ap note about pulleys and belts and lays out different failure modes. It is probably on Red Square...does this ring any bells folks
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Good info on the second hole in the slider Jim.    I think if we keep digging, we will eventually find this belt eating monster.    I still don't understand why the one guide bolt is centered in the slot and the other one is bottomed out in the end of the slot.   Seems these bolts must be closer together for the system to work properly.  Is there another hole in the deck for a guide bolt?

 

BTW, Just so you don't think I gave up on this, I will be off line for a week.  I am leaving for my fish camp  tomorrow.   No WIFI connection at fish camp.

Edited by Ed Kennell
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9 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

BTW, Just so you don't think I gave up on this, I will be off line for a week

 

How does that song go Ed??? .......You picked a fine time to leave us Lucille......:lol:

13 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

   Not sure why there are two holes

 Could they be to compensate for belt stretch?

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First of all let me thank everyone participating in this post not only for your time,opinions, suggestions and help but also for the therapeutic value of all mentioned before. I just go a little insane when I can't understand something and I can't rest until I do. Perhaps thinking about all of the time and expense spent with this deck many would have scrapped it already but that is not possible here. With all of your help this will be solved.

 

So listening to everyone's comments and not having put deck back yet, I removed idler and placed it on the next hole which is about 1"+ forward of the one it was on. That changes things substantially. Spring is now stretched twice as much as before to the point that you really need two people to put belt on. Belt is actually stretched more than when I locked down the adjustment bar. It also changes drastically the positioning of the studs in the elongated bar slot. Everything moved into the other extreme. Now it is not really possible to stretch belt any further. The only way to that now would be to substitute the idler with a larger one. Now I still have the damaged belt on and I am sure that it is longer than it should be. I can see that it is going to be some job trying to put new belt on now. Within the next few days I will be trying it this way.

 

I still have to understand how the cuts on the belt  are happening or if it is just the heat that deteriorates the rubber and creates the cracks when it bends backwards over the idler.

 

 

IMG_0218.JPGIMG_0219.JPGIMG_0220.JPG

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Please let us know if this fixes your problem. Best of luck. Now your belt and idler look in the correct positions. Looks like my deck set up.

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A few things to consider. The spring and/or idler may not be original.

 

I just looked at a bunch of stuff pertaining to belt failures on the web and it seems your problem could be related to not enough tension.  If so you may now have a solution.

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Lookin better guy...Let the fescues go to seed get that horse up on the guvnor & givem hell Harry.....that'll be the test. 

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I can't wait to see how this story ends.  

I agree that the recent pictures have too little tension on the belt.

I don't know where this comes from, but I thought that a properly tensioned belt would have 1/2" of deflection if you push on the center of the longest span.

(Maybe that was for drive belts?)

That belt is so loose that I wonder if it is hitting itself?

Moving at full speed, in opposite directions, it would pack a whallop!

I'm not sure fixed tension is a good idea.  The belt is going to lengthen as speed and temperature increase during use. (See previous photo of the drill press)

I think a tension system that that doesn't adjust will lead to, at best, thrown belts.  Or at worst, it will be a belt eating monster.

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Haven't had a drive belt, including decks, fail in years. Huskee Kevlar is all I use, on the shelf at TSC. One of their outlets is a mile from me.

Make sure all pulleys are spinning and not wobbly. On occasion I do spray belts with a bit of belt dressing. Don't know why but it gives the grandsons something to do.

 

Don't clean any belts with a cheesegrader!  :ROTF:

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Decided to leave old damaged belt on and give it a try with the idler in new location to see if anymore damage occurs. Mowed entire place today which takes about 2 hours . As it mows there is no audible or visual difference. It did do a great job before anyway, part of reason why I am so intent on saving this deck. After the next mowing I will remove deck and inspect it again. If no additional damage I will then switch to new belt.      image.jpeg

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Hope your problem is solved.  Your place looks great!

:text-bravo:

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I hope everything works out with the deck. I like your place ,looks great. If you have any free time my lawn needs a lot of work. Come visit and I will let you work on yard.

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Nice landscaping!

Would you be interested in a postion at Bushwood Country Club?

We have an opening for an assistant greenskeeper.

Bring your own rodent control tools.

 

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Hard to tell if it is mowing properly, why don't you come to my place and do a couple of cuttings to be sure?   :ychain:

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So after another 4 hours of mowing I am pretty sure I still have a problem . I did keep old belt already with some cracks in it but now as you can see from photos it is much worst. It already has some of the usual chunks missing . I video taped deck engaged at full speed and as you can see it runs smooth and true. Belt is not flopping around at all. I had even resharpened already sharpened blades.

I am stumped!!!

I am going to now change belt to a new one and see how that goes. These new ones I got now are the cheapest ones I found for $8.00 each shipping included. Hopefully that is the secret, a cheap belt.

.IMG_0225.MOV

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

image.jpeg

Edited by formariz
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Those cracks look very deep. I would expect the internal cords that give it it's strength would be closer to the center of the cross section for a belt that travels over a flat idler.

 

Garry

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3 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Those cracks look very deep. I would expect the internal cords that give it it's strength would be closer to the center of the cross section for a belt that travels over a flat idler.

 

Garry

I have used every conceivable belt available. The result is identical in all brands used. Kevlar belts no difference. Toro belts are actually the ones that failed the fastest. They actually snapped.

Edited by formariz
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Boy this is a puzzler... your vid really does show the deck running nice and smooth.... plenty of tension (too much??)  I have decks that the belt jumps around like the world's oldest profession  in church and nary a problem. On one of my decks the slide moves (bounces) back and forth 1/4 -3/8 of an inch but it is the style that rides on nylon u-shaped blocks.   The only thing I notice is the belt rides on the idler a little low but not serious. The reason I bring that up is I noticed one side of your belt is frayed worse than the other. Could it be trying to ride on the idler flange?

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2 minutes ago, WHX61/3 said:

Boy this is a puzzler... your vid really does show the deck running nice and smooth.... plenty of tension (too much??)  I have decks that the belt jumps around like the world's oldest profession  in church and nary a problem. On one of my decks the slide moves (bounces) back and forth 1/4 -3/8 of an inch but it is the style that rides on nylon u-shaped blocks.   The only thing I notice is the belt rides on the idler a little low but not serious. The reason I bring that up is I noticed one side of your belt is frayed worse than the other. Could it be trying to ride on the idler flange?

 

I watched it for quite sometime and it stays in same area of idler all the time. Also if it did try to jump the bottom lip of idler the back of belt would shows signs of it.Well, the back of the belt is the only thing that survives. Some were running with only the backs all twisted up, nothing else of the belt was left. The Toro belts will just break eventually. None of the other brands snapped.

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18 minutes ago, WHX61/3 said:

 

Boy this is a puzzler... your vid really does show the deck running nice and smooth

 

It certainly is.  We are going have to give out an award for the person that solves this mystery.   

 

After seeing the latest video, I'll be dogged if I know what the problem is. 

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I'm Baaaacccckkk.      Just trying to catch up. 

   I thought changing the idler pulley to the other hole and increasing the tension would solve the problem. 

The video was great and it does appear to be running smoothly.

The only question still remaining in my mind is the relationship of the slots with the guide bolts does not seem to be correct.

I am wondering if the fact that no matter which hole you mount the idler pulley in, one of the slots is bottomed out on one of the guide bolts.

With the slot bottomed out, could it be preventing the bar from moving as designed and be and causing the belt to suffer high frequency fluctuations in the belt tension that is causing the fatigue cracks?   I'm just thinking out loud here.   

 

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3 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I'm Baaaacccckkk.      Just trying to catch up. 

   I thought changing the idler pulley to the other hole and increasing the tension would solve the problem. 

The video was great and it does appear to be running smoothly.

The only question still remaining in my mind is the relationship of the slots with the guide bolts does not seem to be correct.

I am wondering if the fact that no matter which hole you mount the idler pulley in, one of the slots is bottomed out on one of the guide bolts.

With the slot bottomed out, could it be preventing the bar from moving as designed and be and causing the belt to suffer high frequency fluctuations in the belt tension that is causing the fatigue cracks?   I'm just thinking out loud here.   

 

 

Although one is closer to end of adjustment than the second one, with idler in second hole there isn't anything bottomed out now. Bar does fluctuate back and forth.

 

I am going to use it later without the guards on to see if anything different happens to belt when blades encounter resistance.

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I don't know if I need to scratch my watch or wind my butt on this problem . I had hope that it was solved. I looked at the latest batch of picture closely and I did notice this on picture number 7. When you moved the idler pulley to the next hole, you can see rub marks on the tension bar when the idler was in the first location. Is the tension bar bent , is the threaded hole or threads messed up? I will look at my deck again tomorrow ( if it does not rain) I will remove the deck from the tractor and take pictures if need be to figure this out. I HOPE

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Hi, what happened next, Im dying to know?. This is as good as Agatha Christie. what was it that killed the belts

And if nothing else it would be instructive. Are you using the same deck this year..........

Andy

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