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peigt14

suburban tranmission flush

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peigt14

just acquired either a 60 or 61 suburban, 3 piece trans, no engine currently mounted, what is the best practice to drain and re-fill trans, opened up plug and what is in there now looks like a milky brownish  color, I know I have read filling driving around for a bit and then draining and refilling but I can't really do this without the engine, also what is best to refill with? any advice would be appreciated.  also how available are axels seals and how difficult are there to install?

 

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Brian01

IMHO, I would put the plug back in, pour some karosene, gas, or Deisel. Use a paint stir, stick or w/e. Let it sit for a few hrs, remove plug and flush it with same stuff, get it all good and clean and fill with proper oil.

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WHX??

These transmissions don't  have a drain plug so they can be somewhat of a bear to flush. Our resident tranny pro  @stevasaurus will be along shortly  to chime in on how best to do it. Axle seals are readily available and very easy to install but the hubs must be remove. See the above pinned thread for part numbers and sources. 

 

BTW if the axle seals are leaking it can mean the outboard bushings are worn :text-imsorry: but that means the tranny has to split. Not to worry lots of good folks here to help with that too.

Edited by WHX6
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peigt14

thanks, thinking flushing with something would be a good idea, is the small plug below the right axle the drain plug or a fill line plug, I thought I read somewhere to fill until fluid pours out of this hole

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WHX??

Correct  on that

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wallfish

They come off fairly easy so you can slosh it around on the bench. I use an electric motor to spin them.

You can remove one of the lower bolts holding the side plate on to drain it.

Easiest to remove the shifter and fill through that big hole.

Just replacing the seals will not last long if the axle bearings are worn. They are just bronze bushings so they are usually worn. You should not be able to move those axles at all except for a tiny bit of in and out. If they have some play then the new seals will not hold.

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WHX??

Duh John.....why didn't I just think to take out a case bolt or 2:text-yeahthat:

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peigt14

thanks for the great info as usual, looks like I have a little work ahead before I can bolt an engine on and start driving.

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peigt14

might as well dive into this a little deeper, I downloaded and printed the manual and got the cross reference numbers from another post for the oil seals for the left and right at the brake and input shaft, they are showing (2) bronze bearings 1503 and 1517, don't show on right side in pic but list says 2 required so I presume they are present on both sides and oil seals at axle 1257 which again from my research in previous posts I have the wheelhorse number for those, also have gasket numbers from manual not sure how available these are?

 

I guess what I need now is some advice on best practice to change bronze bearings.  Do you split one side at a time? and my main concern is what to expect when I open it up.  Will everything inside fall apart and need to be reassembled when opened?  I presume the oil seals just snap off and new once snap back in place, removing the hubs may be the biggest challenge there.

 

Again any info would be appreciated. 

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stevasaurus

Here ya go...

if you have another tractor, you could put the rear end of your suburban on blocks and use a long belt, rope, or pantyhose to go around your input pulley and the engine pulley on your other tractor...thus spinning the trans when flushing.  I like to use diesel...I would not use plain gas.  Those axle seals are hard to come by now and are only available from TORO..  Jake Kuhn is selling gaskets and bearing kits...TORO no longer has the gaskets (you would have to cut your own)...Jake's are laser cut professional, just like TORO's were.  Check out the thread above and the videos and let us know what you think.  Send Jake Kuhn a PM to find out what he has.  :)

 

Here is a video of bench testing / flushing set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugBHWjUi8LU

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peigt14

Thanks, I was actually watching a few of your videos this morning, nice to know what is going on in there before I crack it open.

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oliver2-44

In the transmission section there is a document that cross references all the bearings and bushing to those available from Motion Industries. As others have said the seals are only available from Toro.

 I currently have my 1st one apart. Regrettable I'm on hold looking for some gears that are heavily rusted from sitting in watery oil. So, get that old oil our of these especially if it looks like it has water in it.

and remember to keep a good shifter boot on it to keep water out.

 

PS, Anyone have a full set of gears, I'm still looking!

Edited by oliver2-44

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stevasaurus

If you take the hubs off, take a screw driver and ball peen hammer and tap off the cap seal.  When you look at the axle and housing, you will see the end of the bronze bearing.  It should look the same size all the way around...approx 1/16" with no side to side or up and down movement of the axle.  If that bearing is thinner at any point, you will have a little axle movement and a new seal will probably leak.  Time to open trans.  Flushing is not imperative, but it makes for a much nicer, cleaner job to get as much old oil and water out as possible.  When taking apart, have the input side of trans in a vise...take off the brake shaft side.  Take it apart in reverse order from the video.  When you get to the mushroom gear and differential, you need to lift the mushroom gear a little bit to get the bolt tabs on the casting around and above that gear.  Then you can snake that casting up and off.  Be careful, those bolt tabs can be fragile!!! 

               I take a good, thin blade, slot screwdriver to find the weakest and thinnest part of the bronze bearing.  Tap the driver between the bearing and housing to rip and bend the bronze bearing...usually just a little and then it will pull out with a needle nose pliers.  To place the new bronze bearing, I use a piece of 2 x 4 and ball peen hammer to tap the bearing in until flush.  I find I have to sand or hone the bearing once placed to get a nice fit for the axle and the same for the differential carriage.  It should go in and turn easy, otherwise the transmission may bind up when you bolt it together in the end.  :)

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WHX??

Heres a link to when I did mine... http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/57982-dennys-free-suburban-work/?page=2 I got a few good pics in there of curling them out. Best bet is to see @Jake Kuhn might have  evething you need and about the same price as getting everthing yourself... even less if your time is as valuable as mine. If the axles are scored consider doing the world famous  @Racinbob axle flip.

 

Shifter boots are on ebay for 10 bucks.

 

Steve's ground down carriage bolt to remove blind hole bearings does actually work...if ya don't mind sacrificing a perfectly good wood chisel to get them started!

 

Going thru these trannys is easy and fun.

Edited by WHX6
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Jake Kuhn

Thanks guys, yep I have complete rebuild kits available for these transmissions. If your interested in finding out more about them just send me a pm. These are pretty simple to go through just can take some patience at times. 

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peigt14

got everything tore apart last night, looks like the axel bushing and seals are fine, no movement at all, with the exception of about 1/8" in and out,  the leak is coming from the brake shaft and input shaft, there doesn't seem to be oil seals in place there at all, I drained old fluid, added some diesel, spun input shaft with a impact wrench, drained, repeated same process, things seem to be working well, I might flush a few more times, even the second time things were cleaner but still quite brown.

I think I am going to try to replace top seals, fill with new fluid and see what happens.

 

Should these seals be visible, when I removed the pulleys I seem to be seeing the end of the bearings, from the sketch in the owners manual parts list they look like they should slip on similar to the axel seals. 

 

thanks for all the great info, I am sure I will be back to bug you all again before this project is complete.

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wallfish

yes, the seals are on the outside, or at least they should be and they can be replaced without taking the trans apart.

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stevasaurus

And the brake shaft and input seals can be had from NAPA, Motion Industries...etc.  :)  Timken 471643 if you have the S8K ball bearings...it is the same for both input and brake shaft.  IF...you have the needle bearing for the brake shaft, you will need the SKF 7410 seal.  Just so you know.  :)

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peigt14

how do I tell if which bearing the brake has?

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Racinbob

The ball bearing seal is 1 5/8" OD and the roller bearing seal is 1" OD. Pull the drum and you'll see it. :)

Brake shaft seals.JPG

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WHX??

Thats somewhat bizarre that the seal would be missing. if you have the ball bearing you should be able to see the balls in the bearing if the seal is not ther, seal & ball bearing  should look like this

20150921_170831.jpg

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stevasaurus

If you look at your input shaft seal, and it looks like it will fit on the brake shaft, then you need 2...if not you need the SKF 7410 because you have the needle bearing.  Being a Suburban...it is very possible you may have the needle bearing, but it is not 100%.  :)  Let us know. 

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peigt14

here is what is there now and a pic of the suburban before I took it apart, don't see any ball bearings, I am correct it assuming seals are missing?  I have never seen these before but based of what the axel seals look like and the sketch in the owners manual looks like they install the same way over the outside lip.

trans1.jpg

trans2.jpg

suburban.jpg

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Jake Kuhn

Seals are there, 1 side uses the needle bearing and the other a ball bearing, most commonly used on the suburbans. The seals bob posted are what you will need.

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peigt14

So they aren't like the axle seals that install over the Axel lip, these would have to be removed with a seal puller tool.

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