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Differences between the K161 and K181?

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What are the "external" differences between the K161 and K181 engines? Looks like I'm never gonna find a K161, so I'm wondering how obvious it would be to use a K181.

Bill's 701 has got my wheels turning, and I'm missing that particular little part (the engine) on mine :D

I've got the starter generator, the double flyweel pulley, and the belt guard for the 701, and I'm wondering if I could use the K181 until I find the correct engine. My K181 is the starter/generator setup. What would I need to change to make it pass for now? Also, the K181 is missing the ID plate on the flywheel shroud.

Here's the K181:

IM000630-1.jpg

IM000631.jpg

What do you guys think?

Kevin

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Kevin the K141/K161/K181 are all the same block & externally the same engine.

It's the bore & stroke that makes the differant for the most part.

So you could fit a K181 in your 701 & no one would know unless they call in the "correct police"

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I may just have to do it for now. My 701 has been "on the shelf" for way too long, and I wanna see it completed!

Besides, it's just another "pro" on the list for reasons to finish the 867 with the twin briggs now that I found another hood for it!

Now the only thing missing from the K181 is the original carb. It's got a Walbro replacement carb on it... I think I can find one of those!

Kevin

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Kevin, do you have the coil bracket that bolts to the two front oil sump bolts for your 701? If you don't I can get the dimensions so you can fabricate one. They are a little different than the "newer" ones.

0571aae8.jpg

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Terry, thanks for the picture- and no, I don't have that bracket.

If you can get me the specs on it, I'd sure appreciate it.

Kevin

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If you can get me the specs on it, I'd sure appreciate it.

Kevin

I don't know if this is the best place to do this, but here it is:

5d9b1001.jpg

Use this view for following the right/left -- top/bottom dimensions:

6fa59105.jpg

This bracket looks pretty simple to fabricate. The required material is a 1/8" plate steel, 2" X 5 1/8".

It will need bent to 90 degrees along the length, one inch in from either edge.

(I suppose you could use 1/8" thick 1" angle if you aren't scared of the "WH police" :P )

The location of the 3/8" holes (on the top of the backet) to mount the bracket to the engine are as follows:

Both hole centerlines (referred to as CL from here on) are 1/4 inch in from the back edge. The right side hole CL is 1/2" in from the right side and CL spacing to the left hole is 3 3/16".

The two coil bracket mounting holes are drilled 5/16" with the 1/4 X 20 "nut plates" spotwelded to the back side. The CL of the right hole is 1 3/16" in from the right side. The CL spacing is 2 5/8" between holes. Both hole CL's are 1/2" up from the bottom edge.

I think you should understand this, but "shout" if you don't. :D

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Thank you very much Terry.

Nah, no worries on the WH police. I was was, I'd definately not being considering what I'm considering... :D

Thanks again,

Kevin

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As for as I'm concerned, this is the best place for that info. :D

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I'll throw this picture on here for reference then too.

This is a coil mounting bracket from a 753:

d033faa3.jpg

I never realized it, but the theory of the blocks all being the same externally has just been shot down. :D

Notice the two extra bolt bosses on Kevin' s engine at the camshaft "bulge" area? ......they aren't on the K-161 on my 701. :P

Now I have to go look at all my small blocks and compare them. I do know that the K-181 from my 855 (now on the 854) doesn't have them.

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Okay the K141/161/181 are the same engine almost externally with a few various differances thrown in. :D

Never seen those bosses before on any of my small blocks...or should I say....I never looked for them before? :P

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I knew the obvious little stuff was different like dip stick styles, oil drain plugs, exhaust ports (bolt on muffler or screw in pipe)

Here's the K-181 "basic" on my B-80. I think it's around a 1979/80 model and it has those bosses:

fdb97be6.jpg

I guess it's time to play Sherlock again :P

(I know it's not that big of a deal, and we aren't really wrong about anything here -- but it's something that we can all use as a reference in the future.)

And the last thing I want to have to do is hide from Stephen at the show. :(

:D

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LOL....Terry I'll be looking for you...to shake your hand for all the good info & keen eyesight you bring to Red Square. :P ....I really just hope to make it. :(

I'm going to have to look around at some of my earlier & later model K series small blocks tommorrow...see if I can see any of these "bosses" <_<

It seems like Terry can catch something in 3 posts or less....I think he needs a challenge? :D LOL

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It seems like Terry can catch something in 3 posts or less....I think he needs a challenge?

It seems like everytime you guys post, there is more new info to digest, and it's not just TT. :D

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Krap!

Those bosses were where the coil mounted on that engine...

TT- you don't miss a thing!

Kevin

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TT seems all my later style K181's with gear starters have the cast in bosses on the block.

Kevin I'd go ahead & put that engine in your 701....gonna have to look hard under that solid front hood to spot those cast in bosses.

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Hmmmmm ...... maybe Kevin's K-181 is not original to his 867 then?

I had an 857 but don't have a picture of the front of the engine, so I can't check that one. I didn't get a chance to check the other ones yet, but NOW I'm real curious. :D

By the way.....

The blue "basic" K-181 that's on my B-80 was originally a recoil-start / magneto-ignition / fixed-throttle engine. It was new enough to have the chrome ID sticker instead of the metal tag. (that I can barely read :P ) It also had the "tin" recoil starter housing, not the cast aluminum one.

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Hmmmmm ...... maybe Kevin's K-181 is not original to his 867 then?

Great! :D

Oh well, maybe that's one way to answer the question of keeping the 867 original...

There was no ID plate on the engine, so I didn't have any way to know. I've got the original manual, I'll see if it's detailed enough to tell where the coil was mounted...

Kevin

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Kevin it could be the original engine let go & a PO bought a short block for it. :P

I would not sweat the small details like that.Unless the Correct Police try & ruff you up. :D

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There was no ID plate on the engine, so I didn't have any way to know. I've got the original manual, I'll see if it's detailed enough to tell where the coil was mounted...

Kevin

I believe I can tell you that....

It would be the same as my 857 was, which was on bracket identical to the one from a 753 in the photo I have posted above.

And..... That explains the Walbro carburetor now too.

It should have the Carter model N with a metal fuel line from the pump to the carb.

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Well, it had the metal fuel line to the carb...

I can't find the manual. I'll check it when I find the thing.

I don't know whether to be happy or ticked about this little development... :D

Kevin

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I'm probably gonna pay for this, but I just realized something else. The drive pulley on your engine is not for an 867 either. It should have the three groove pulley for use with the foot-operated PTO like this one currently on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=320208037650

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Now why ya gotta go throw salt on poor kevins wounds? :P

Just kiddin Terry I wouldn't have picked that out till I was ready to assemble it and it didn't work. Good eye Hawkeye!! Now where did stephensan go I need some more fried rice :D

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I looked at those pictures many times and never thought much of it until I focused on the end of the crankshaft. (thinking it looked awful big for 1") That's when I realized it was the inner race for the newer style PTO pulley roller bearing. (still need that "WTF?" smiley)

That's when it all hit me! (as long as Kevin DOESN'T! :P )

Now I have to ask if that was all on there when you got the tractor, Kevin? :D

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