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jeff lary

312/8 need new battery

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jeff lary

   So the 312-8 is in need of a new battery I think. Last winter I bothered a few times but I got by. Today I went to get it out of the pole barn so I can put the blower and snow cab on tomorrow. At first it turned over good but having set for at least 2 months it soon started to slow the cranking speed down. The next round of key turning produced zip, so I waited a few and tried again and she started.

  When I got it running I let it idle for maybe 10 min then moved it up to the yard and shut it off. I went and got my multi meter and I said 12.87 sitting still / not running. When I started it up I got 14.69 sound fine don't it?

 So if I do buy a battery I will want a good strong one with high CCA I may end up in Tractor Supply ?is there a brand and size you all would recommend? I am sure the battery ( a Wal-Mart ever start brand) about 5 years old will make it another season as long as she gets run every 3-5 days. But I think if the temp drops to single digits for 5-10 days and no snow to blow... when I do need it, it may not start.

  I am buying a battery for my Polaris Ranger on Monday as well, that one quit too! but it is 6 years old and stays in an unheated out building so I guess I cant complain about it. For the Ranger I will be hooking up a battery tender and I may buy one for the WH as well. Thanks for your time Jeff

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DougC

Your battery is 5 years old and you live in Maine....... Do your self a big favor and buy a new battery at least 300 cca and get it installed while the weather is still good!    :)

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jeff lary

See now how easy was that ? I tell ya what all I need is some stranger and I am off to do some spending. I love to spend money looooove it I tell ya. Yes I want a big one I have no idea how many cca's the wally world one is but I wish I could find a bout a 900 cca love the grunt of a big cca battery.

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slammer302

I agree with DougC i always look for 300cca battery for the bigger kohlers evrything else gets whats the cheapest.

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953 nut

I have been using the Tractor Supply "Husky" batteries for several years and been pleased. I go for the 420 CCA and have been getting 4 to 5 years of service from them. TS is about the lowest price in my neck of the woods.

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SALTYWRIGHT

I USE THE TRACTOR SUPPLY 420 CCC BATTERY ON MY 1054 DIESEL AND IT HAS BEEN VERY GOOD.

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roadapples

Probably overkill and more expensive but I use the smallest car battery that will fit. 500 CCA. I hate messing with jumper cables when its cold. 3 yr. full replacement & 2 yr. pro rated.

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squonk

Yup I keep telling them. If you have old worn out 6 ga battery cables and ends, all that cranking power is going right down the toilet.

 

A lot of guys in my Power King group say you have to put a group 24 battery on it because you need all this cranking power. well the original battery was a 24 but unless you want it to be original looking it's a waste. I start mine on a 230 CCA L & G unit.

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Racinbob

Once a year, without fail, I go through all the wiring on my tractor(s). I don't own and have never owned a Battery Tender, solar charger, etc. and never saw the need for one. They do have their place so if you want one there certainly is no harm and go for it but I just never have. Yes, I do have a charger but it's main use is for the deep cycle battery I use on the electrolysis tank. I also don't recall ever getting less than 4-5 years out of my tractor batteries and when I do need one I get whatever is on sale at the time without much thought on cca. Maintenance is, by far, the best thing you can do to prevent issues. A connection may look good but looks ain't everything. Inspect, clean and tighten. I could be wrong but it's worked for me for some five decades. Come on guys, don't say "But you live in a warm climate". Four of those decades were in northern Indiana. :)

Edited by Racinbob
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squonk

With multiple tractors they tend to sit a spell. Especially the PK. Then with erratic snow fall it may be months between starts. That said I have 3 battery tenders going on the winter crew. A 4th in the basement on the C 160 battery as it's getting the winter off.

 

If you want a tender, buy a good one. I bought a cheapo at HF and installed it on my PK. First time i cranked the engine I thought that 

Kohler was going to fly out of the tractor! :)

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Racinbob

There you go Mike. A good use for them. I don't mean to sound like they are a waste of money. They are great. I just didn't need them. My main point was the maintenance. Without it even with tenders there will still be issues. I know maintenance isn't an issue on your machines. I had two that worked in the winter so no problem with those. One with a blade, one with a blower. The others that mainly sat when snow was on the ground could have used them but I always liked to tinker and play so they got run at least once a month. Kudos on the quality units. Some of the cheapies could do more harm than good. :)

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squonk

I had a Black and Decker tender that kept boiling the water out of my Goldwing Battery over the winter. I only use the Genuine "Tender " brand now.

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jeff lary

  Well thanks for all the replies I have been looking at the TSC batteries earlier this spring so I may go with that. I went out this am it was 14* here and my W.H. started right up. I am going to put the blower and cab on later today when my son gets back to help me. That battery is a funny thing. I am pretty anal about maintaining my OPE and yesterday when she failed to start I decided maybe time for a new battery. I said this ever start was 5 years old could be more than that I really don't know.

  Today I started it up and let it run a while , while I got the pole barn organized for the winter and the shed cleaned out to park the wh. The main reason it did not start up yesterday was because it had not been started since September or so. Usually as soon as you use it every 3-5 days you will see no more issues. During the summer months there is never a starting problem of course but when the temp drops and she sits awhile.... I may have a slow crank session . The battery will stay in for now I am not into spending cash when I don't have to. If she fails me I can put in a new battery then no big deal I guess I always have the Kubota for snow plowing.

 

 My deep down real reason for posting I guess was to see if one brand of battery was mentioned more than the rest . I have had good luck with the Ever start that is in there now,.. but I am quite sure she is not a top of the line battery.

 

  I have to quite possibly buy a new battery for my Polaris Ranger but right now It is fully charged and back in the Polaris I also have  a Schumacher battery tender connected to it. I never use the tender still in the box till today but I thought I would be a good thing to try. If at some point she fails to start I will buy new.

 

  I do have a question about charging a battery then checking it's charge, here goes. I put the Polaris battery on 6amp 12v for almost 24 hours it initially read 4 v left to go. 24 hours later it still read 4v so I said she is junk but I checked it with a multi meter and it said 12.49v so it said battery fully charged? So then I went and got an old like (1978) squeeze bulb electrolyte tester and she would not float 1 ball let alone the recommended 4 balls. So last evening at about 6pm I switched from 6amp 12v to 2amp 12v ( trickle charge) the needle went up to 3 ,....at 8 am today 14 hours later the gauge needle was back to .5 almost zero. I put the battery back in the machine and she started right up so I parked it in an out building and put the battery tender on it . Now all I can do is wait a few days to give it a chance to fail then try to start it up I guess.

 

  So my question's, if a charger starts at 6am 12 volt with a reading of 4 and 24 hours later it still rests at 4 is the battery any good?

Next is it possible for a electrolyte type tester to go bad? and if the electrolyte tester says no good but the multi meter says 12.49 and the charger says you are not making any progress which would you believe?  I think it responded better to a slow 2amp 12 volt charge the electrolyte was bubbling steady this am . I do believe  that you cannot heal a bad battery so no matter what voodoo you do to it a truly bad battery will be bad again very very soon. Thank all of you for taking the time to reply I respect any advice but in the end we are all different but you advice gives me more options and more to think about. Thanks Jeff

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squonk

12.49 is not fully charged yet. 12.7 is fully charged. What read 4V? The battery or the charger. 6 amp rate for 24 hrs. should have charged it fully. if not I'd say replace the battery.

 

565b35242daf7_battery001.thumb.JPG.ce694

Edited by squonk
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953 nut
12 hours ago, Save Old Iron said:

You would be ahead in $$'s, time and level of frustration if you just anticipate and plan for replacement of the smaller battery every 3 years

 

I respectfully disagree, the 200 at TS is $27 and you are doing well to get two years of life from it and it will let you down at the most inconvenient time; the 420 st TS is $50 and has proven to outlast the 200 more than double. :twocents-02cents:

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jeff lary

Yes Squonk sorry,

 The charger when set to 6 amp 12 volt for 24 hours was still reading 4 on the charger dial ,..the same as when first connected 24 hours earlier 4 volts.

   To me that means the battery was in need of 4 volts to be fully charged,.. but after 24 hours it still read 4 so it took zero volts from the charger so battery is no good  For the heck of it after I saw that reading I switched the charger to 2 amp 12 volt just for the hell of it and this morning at 8 am it was reading .5 as in it needed a 1/2 of a volt to be fully charged?

  So I just came in from a ranger ride a moment ago,.. Black Powder season starts tomorrow so I went to see how the guys were doing lining in their rifles. The ranger has been on the tender since this morning and it started right up. Now I will just try it every few days to see what happens next.

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953 nut

:twocents-02cents:    Could be the six amp portion of you charger has a problem rather than the battery.

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jeff lary

Yes I agree it is an ancient craftsman . I have a newer die hard automatic with micro processor  boost and 2amp 12v and 6 amp 12 as well as 6 volt charging but it is crap I think. No matter what battery you connect to I says " yup yer all set fully charged  !!"  I need one good charger a new one that works flawlessly any favorites out there ?

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DougC

At the farm and home store here in Iowa the 240cca  battery is $27 and the 300cca  battery is $35  The 240 is labeled  lawn and garden and the 300 is labeled HD lawn and garden. The added 60 cold cranking amps makes all the difference in the world as far as crank RPM at zero degrees F.. I have used 240cca batteries  in the past and have found them to be less than adequate for use in my Iowa climate.   

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jeff lary

yes I agree and when I buy it will be a large cca battery

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tunahead72
4 hours ago, jeff lary said:

Yes Squonk sorry,

 The charger when set to 6 amp 12 volt for 24 hours was still reading 4 on the charger dial ,..the same as when first connected 24 hours earlier 4 volts.

   To me that means the battery was in need of 4 volts to be fully charged,.. but after 24 hours it still read 4 so it took zero volts from the charger so battery is no good  For the heck of it after I saw that reading I switched the charger to 2 amp 12 volt just for the hell of it and this morning at 8 am it was reading .5 as in it needed a 1/2 of a volt to be fully charged?

  So I just came in from a ranger ride a moment ago,.. Black Powder season starts tomorrow so I went to see how the guys were doing lining in their rifles. The ranger has been on the tender since this morning and it started right up. Now I will just try it every few days to see what happens next.

 

Just making sure we're all on the same page here...

 

The meter on my old Sears charger reads "D.C. Amperes"; i.e., amps, not volts.  What are the units on your meter?  Is it actually showing you volts, or amps?

 

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squonk

230 amps are more than enough in the cold weather on a Kohler. But with old cables and worn starter. The load increases. I get 4 yrs or more on any battery I've had no matter what brand or  cranking capacity. I don't care if you have a 1000 amp battery. The starter is only going to draw what is needed to crank over. If it's say 200 amps, the other 800 is just going to sit and do nothing. If it needs more than that, you have molasses in the oil or bigger problems. And I repeat, the cables on a gt won't handle 300 + amps. You don't see firemen putting out a large fire with garden hoses do you?

 

The amps you see on your charger should be the charging rate

 

 

Edited by squonk
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Save Old Iron
13 hours ago, jeff lary said:

 The charger when set to 6 amp 12 volt for 24 hours was still reading 4 on the charger dial ,..the same as when first connected 24 hours earlier 4 volts.

  

 

"old school" battery chargers are designed to have a voltage output of 15 volts or slightly above 15 volts.

On 11/29/2015, 12:46:29, Save Old Iron said:

ChurchLadywSOI.gif

 

 

<start battery rant>

 

You guys are confusing the significance of cold cranking amps in relation to overall battery life.

 

First up, .................

 

<end battery rant>

 

I apologize. This is info is probably very confusing to those who just want to "gitter done" and use a BFH.

You did say in your original post you wanted a high CCA battery and later stated the reason for that was you liked the way it grunts. Fair enough, and this should have been an early indication where we were going to end up.

 

My amended advice would be to buy the biggest most expensive name brand battery that will fit in your battery tray. If you feel comfortable with a 300 CCA vs a 220 CCA - no argument. A 400- 900 CCA for a garden tractor - meh!.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q

Edited by Save Old Iron
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Save Old Iron
10 hours ago, 953 nut said:

 

I respectfully disagree, the 200 at TS is $27 and you are doing well to get two years of life from it and it will let you down at the most inconvenient time; the 420 st TS is $50 and has proven to outlast the 200 more than double. 

 

I hear and appreciate your point.

 

counterpoint (from a guy who values time more than money)

 

$27 / 200CCA = 13 cents per CCA - it will die at an inconvenient time

$50 / 420CCA = 12 cents per CCA -it will also die the same inconvenient death - just at a later date.

So if we factor out the cost and both will die the same type of death, we are left with "inconvenience factor".

 

This is fully within the operator's (your) control. Load test the battery before winter. Keep the tractor in good running condition so you don't have to crank the engine for several minutes until the battery depletes. Winter is here. Just watch as the electrical section fills up with with slow crank, no start, clickety clickety solenoid, ignition connector wiring and dirty points issues. 

 

I view batteries like I view snow tires. I'm not looking to squeeze the last drop of life out of either one. I monitor their condition and performance and proactively replace them before they put the operator in an inconvenient or dangerous situation.

5 hours ago, squonk said:

The amps you see on your charger should be the charging rate

 

 

and if you don't see the charge rate decreasing over the hours, the battery is not absorbing the charge current and chemically converting it to stored charge.  the battery is probably getting very warm as the charger current is being dissipated as heat. heated electrolyte evaporates, killing the battery even further.

 

never leave an "old school" type charger connected to a battery for more than 10 -12 hours.

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