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PaulC

Pimped my Plow

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857 horse

Wow,,,,,,i like that idea,,,after looking at the new idea,,,and the size of the beast..i am really hoping the 2 mounting points are not a weak link....

Now ,,,,i have ideas in my head,,,,,,

 

The day is never done !!!   lolool

 

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PaulC

Thanks 857 its pretty slick so far, but we'll really see when I start to push some snow. And if there is going to be a weak link I am hoping its the mounting points and not the actuator, specifically the front mount with the aluminum pin. I have extras made so I would have little to no down time.

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pyroplegic

I've been working this up on paper, glad to see someone has started on it. I want solenoid puller to pop the position pin, then an actuator to move left & right. The other idea I have is to use a front hitch, loose the trailer ball, replace it with another actuator mounted vertically to lift the front end of the plow blade.

Has anybody done this with an actuator? I've seen a winch working the lift

WHEEL-HORSE-TORO-LAWN-GARDEN-TRACTOR-FRONT-TOW-HITCHs-l1600.jpg

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PaulC
14 hours ago, pyroplegic said:

I've been working this up on paper, glad to see someone has started on it. I want solenoid puller to pop the position pin, then an actuator to move left & right. The other idea I have is to use a front hitch, loose the trailer ball, replace it with another actuator mounted vertically to lift the front end of the plow blade.

Has anybody done this with an actuator? I've seen a winch working the lift

 

Im glad you commented because ive been meaning to give this thread an update. The first time using this setup the actuator pulled apart! It was right at the end of plowing my driveway so i used it for a half an hour or so and was pretty happy with it when i went to go push the last little bit of snow off the drive and had the blade angled slightly to the right, I caught something but not even hard enough to make the tractor jerk and the blade spun quickly and when i looked down the back block of the actuator pulled apart from the body. Ive been meaning to take and post a picture and update this but i have been tied up with things at home. I think the actuator can potentially be fixed but i proved that an actuator wont be able to hold the position of the blade itself. I really was happy with it up to that point too. The slow speed of the actuator really didnt seem to be an issue as i was only angling it slightly

 

I think the solenoid for the locking pin is the way to go if you want to use an actuator for the angling of the blade. I have put some thought into it because when i have time if i can fix the actuator this is the route i would try next. I think it may require a relay or two for the timing of the solenoid and the actuator so it can still operate from one switch and i think i would add 2 extra lock holes in between the ones that are there so you dont have to angle full right or full left always.

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Ed Kennell

Sorry it failed Paul, but this is how we learn...by testing our ideas.   :text-thankyouyellow:  for the update.

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pyroplegic
6 hours ago, PaulC said:

I think the solenoid for the locking pin is the way to go if you want to use an actuator for the angling of the blade. I have put some thought into it because when i have time if i can fix the actuator this is the route i would try next. I think it may require a relay or two for the timing of the solenoid and the actuator so it can still operate from one switch and i think i would add 2 extra lock holes in between the ones that are there so you dont have to angle full right or full left always.

 

Yes I was afraid a standard or heavy duty actuator would fail when pushing heavy wet snow on the unsupported side.  My belief (and call me out if I'm wrong) is electric linear actuators are stronger or more reliable pushing and in compression rather than pulling in tension? PaulC, if you had a 2nd actuator on the other side wired in opposite polarity, to push out when the first retracts in, I wonder if that would remedy your problem, then you have one in compression weather you tilt left or right. 


My plan, would have to be some progressive circuitry to pull the pin first using the solenoid, before allowing the windrow actuator to move.  I'm also looking at stronger linear actuators. Not the Amazon or ebay 300# units but, 1350# ones from Northern Tool (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200622241_200622241) 

 

So with the rule or guide earlier of no to tension yes to compression. To lift the plow, I figure to mount a lifting actuator atop the front hitch extending vertically up in front of the hood with some form of strapping going from the A frame of the plow in front if the steering axle up over the top of the front hitch & actuator and back down to the other side of the A-frame. Then the plows A-frame could be lifted as high as all the way to the bottom of the front axle. This front lifter actuator would eliminate the lifter bar / down pressure hook up in the middle of the tractor, and if designed right the front atach-a-matic front hitch / lift system will keep the blade from wondering left or right.

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Ed Kennell

Just thinking about your idea of a solenoid activated pin. Not trying to question your idea, but  I'm afraid it would take a pretty  elaborate electronic system to position the sector accurately enough to eliminate any binding so the solenoid could pull the pin. 

I don't know If it would help in your application, but I have a mechanical pin pulling system on the  blade  of my quad.  that may be of value to you.

I use the winch to raise the plow, and if I continue to raise the plow higher than normal, a cam mounted on the plow frame hits the quad frame and rotates pulling the sector pin. This then allows me to angle the blade to the new position.  When the blade is lowered slightly, the cam releases the pin to drop back in the new hole.

This pic shows the plow raised and the pin pulled.   The springs in the lift are necessary to handle the overrun of the 3Klb winch.  Don't ask how I know this.IMG_1993.thumb.JPG.f72f426339d6d5a39263f

 

IMG_1992.thumb.JPG.1c1259468d0099a15616e

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PaulC
15 minutes ago, pyroplegic said:

 

Yes I was afraid a standard or heavy duty actuator would fail when pushing heavy wet snow on the unsupported side.  My belief (and call me out if I'm wrong) is electric linear actuators are stronger or more reliable pushing and in compression rather than pulling in tension? PaulC, if you had a 2nd actuator on the other side wired in opposite polarity, to push out when the first retracts in, I wonder if that would remedy your problem, then you have one in compression weather you tilt left or right. 


My plan, would have to be some progressive circuitry to pull the pin first using the solenoid, before allowing the windrow actuator to move.  I'm also looking at stronger linear actuators. Not the Amazon or ebay 300# units but, 1350# ones from Northern Tool (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200622241_200622241) 

 

So with the rule or guide earlier of no to tension yes to compression. To lift the plow, I figure to mount a lifting actuator atop the front hitch extending vertically up in front of the hood with some form of strapping going from the A frame of the plow in front if the steering axle up over the top of the front hitch & actuator and back down to the other side of the A-frame. Then the plows A-frame could be lifted as high as all the way to the bottom of the front axle. This front lifter actuator would eliminate the lifter bar / down pressure hook up in the middle of the tractor, and if designed right the front atach-a-matic front hitch / lift system will keep the blade from wondering left or right.

 

I would agree with you about the actuator being more reliable in compression then tension because that is exactly what happened the actuator was pulled on and the small bolts that hold the back plate on ripped right out, thats why i say i think its fixable. At this point with hard enough hit i wonder if a very high strength actuator could still seperate? The other downside is usually the stronger the actuator the slower they move, and they get very expensive.

Another actuator on the opposite side is a new idea i havent thought of yet and i like it! It definitely would be very easy to wire and i do think it could take care of the problem i encountered.

To have a solenoid there would be some tricky circuitry needed to deal with the issues Ed brought up. My Dad and I actually discussed this for a few hours on our truck ride up north to go snowmobiling and it did get kind of complicated.

Why are you thinking of mounting an actuator out front for lifting the plow?

 

Ed thats a slick design you came up with there but i would still have the issue of having to precisely stop the actuator in the right spot so the hole lines up with the pin? And its no sweat that it failed but thanks for your sympathy, I had the expectations that this was going to happen. We have had one pathetic winter here anyway and i have 3 other tractors with blowers mounted so the plow really isnt needed. This is just one of those things I thought was a cool idea and wanted to try, and im not done with it yet just because of this. Not sure when ill get back to it and what direction ill go next but ill make something work.

 

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pyroplegic

Wonderful idea!

My idea was to put the solenoid about where your cam-traption is but your idea is less electrical, and only move the blade when fully raised.

 

PaulC, I want to put this out front because I watch my 60+ father roll around under trying to hitch the lifter mechanism, and he hooks it up silly & it binds up or forgets a cottter pin and falls off the lifter cam. I thought this being visible, out front it would eliminate that.as well as I said earlier if designed right the front atach-a-matic front hitch / lift system will keep the blade from wondering left or right when windrowing.

 

The other

Edited by pyroplegic

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WHX??

Do you  have to get off the quad to change the angle Ed or do you have a way to move the blade while still mounted?

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Ed Kennell

No, I don't have to get off Jim. I have extended the push pull rod back under the  right floor board of the quad where it is attached to a short angle control lever.

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WHX??

Ahhh ..I see was thinking about doing a blade angle setup  on my atv plow but now that I have a 520 & blower doubt if I will plow with it much anymore. Once I score a cab & put on Matts pedal kit know I won't.  When your not as spry as you once were it's a pain hopping on and off!;)

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Ed Kennell

Yeah, You can't beat the 520H w/blower, cab, and foot control for the deep stuff, but I still like the plows up to 6-8".  The plows don't throw the stones as far.

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WHX??

Got blacktop now Ed ....a rolling horse throws no stones! and no more raking gravel come spring. Plows certainly don't throw the the stones as far as the mower!

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Ed Kennell

I do 3, sometimes 4 blacktop driveways  and about 1000 sq ft of stone road.  I like to use the 312H w/ cab and rubber chains if it's plowable...less risk of damage to the neighbors B-top and less fuel..  But if it gets deep, I don't hesitate to light up the 520H with the double link V bar chains, loaded tires, wheel weights and rear hitch weight.    I usually float the blower 2-3" over the stones, then clean up with the 312 or quad plow.

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WHX??

Good strategy... the chains do leave scuff marks but hopefully will fade... would have loved the 2 link v's but the wife....:angry-nono:

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Ed Kennell

OK Paul, I just plowed 8" of the heavy wet stuff with the 312H and I am ready to add power angle to the 48" plow.   I originally bought this  rig as one I would resell, but it is now a keeper.

Have you given any thought to simply using a WH lift cylinder for angle control?

 

Not to hijack your thread Paul, but here are a few pics of the plow angle control on my quad for Jim.

 

I just cut off the lever above the bracket on the plow and moved it back to the side of the quad and connected it with another rod.

 

The plow frame  was positioned on the quad so the angle lever and pin pulling cam brackets would clear the A frame and did not require any mods.  So I can easily remount it on a WH.

 

IMG_5465.JPG.34219c4bc5124a577aa3c915433IMG_5466.JPG.6e4da875a624a9cbff9739ef62cIMG_5468.JPG.9d8400327c2f2afb61780f08080

 

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pyroplegic

PaulC,
Purely accidental while watching a ford tractor plow, I see what I'm trying to do. Now that one's hydraulic controlled as I'd like to use linear actuator .Looks like the ford plow is an A-Frame type mount to the rear axle and a lift cylinder in front of the hood.

 

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PaulC
15 hours ago, ekennell said:

OK Paul, I just plowed 8" of the heavy wet stuff with the 312H and I am ready to add power angle to the 48" plow.   I originally bought this  rig as one I would resell, but it is now a keeper.

Have you given any thought to simply using a WH lift cylinder for angle control?

 

Not to hijack your thread Paul, but here are a few pics of the plow angle control on my quad for Jim.

 

I just cut off the lever above the bracket on the plow and moved it back to the side of the quad and connected it with another rod.

 

The plow frame  was positioned on the quad so the angle lever and pin pulling cam brackets would clear the A frame and did not require any mods.  So I can easily remount it on a WH.

 

Ed that is one nice 312H and i know from having one they are very nice machines so i am not at all surprised your keeping that beauty! If i remember correctly i think the hydraulic lift cylinder has a similar stroke to the actuator i used which is 4", and i actually think member @elliot ness just recently mounted one to his plow for the angling but i dont know if he ever made it anywhere with it, maybe he will update or add a comment here. I do think hydraulics would be the best option but those cylinders can be tough to find and pricey and im not sure about tapping into the original system, others have done it though? It would be really fast though which would be great and i think the hydraulic cylinder would hold up much better. It would be really sweet with quick connects on the lines, you could drive right over the plow and literally hook and unhook in 2 minutes, that was the greatest benefit behind my idea. Maybe this will be the route i go when i get back to it because this really would be the best setup.

 

You have been very helpful with this thread so you are not at all hijacking. You really thought that out and did quite the job mounting the :wh: plow on the quad.

 

13 hours ago, pyroplegic said:

PaulC,
Purely accidental while watching a ford tractor plow, I see what I'm trying to do. Now that one's hydraulic controlled as I'd like to use linear actuator .Looks like the ford plow is an A-Frame type mount to the rear axle and a lift cylinder in front of the hood.

 

Thats a beefy looking machine, I fixed up a ford for someone recently and it was a pretty nice tractor! That idea doesnt seem like it would be hard to makeup but you should just think about picking your pops up another awesome :wh: and just mount the plow and leave it. Even a manual lift tractor wouldnt be bad because the plows arent that heavy. If you do end up going the actuator route here is the part# for the momentary switch wheel horse used for the electric lift kit on the manual lift tractors, 55046-04 google search and you should be able to find it for 12 bucks. Not the one i used because i found it afterwards but its the one i would go with now.

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shallowwatersailor

I think the issue is the linear actuators price vs ability. My Johnny Bucket use Warner actuators which are pricey but seem to have more strength than what has been discussed. JB sells a 42" a Johnny Plow that uses the actuator to swing the blade.

 

http://www.johnnyproducts.com/J_Bucket_HTMs/Johnny_Plow_Jr.htm

 

 

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PaulC
46 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

I think the issue is the linear actuators price vs ability. My Johnny Bucket use Warner actuators which are pricey but seem to have more strength than what has been discussed. JB sells a 42" a Johnny Plow that uses the actuator to swing the blade.

 

http://www.johnnyproducts.com/J_Bucket_HTMs/Johnny_Plow_Jr.htm

 

interesting info John thanks! That actuator definitely is beefy and the thing that jumps out to me the most is how the actuator is mounted at almost a 45 degree angle to the blade, to where mine is mounted close to 90. Not sure that would have any effect or not though?

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shallowwatersailor
2 hours ago, PaulC said:

 

interesting info John thanks! That actuator definitely is beefy and the thing that jumps out to me the most is how the actuator is mounted at almost a 45 degree angle to the blade, to where mine is mounted close to 90. Not sure that would have any effect or not though?

I just spent some additional time on another tractor forum. I'm still focused on adapting my Johnny Bucket to a 5xi, but looked at his plow adaptation to the JB bracket. By the way he does offer a 48" plow as well. His plow design is different than WH but his mounting could be adapted the WH plow.   He seems to use a U-channel mount for the shaft further out towards the end of the blade. The motor end just seems to be a reinforced mounting pad on the frame. The WH sector plate is rather thin so a better location may be a plate between the two rails of the frame. The photo is a hydraulic Johnny Plow Sr. but would be similar for an electric actuator.

 

56bbbea15f246_JplowSr013.jpg.e20faaf92cd

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shallowwatersailor

Here are a couple more photos of how Johnny Products mounts the actuator.For the motor end it appears to be a steel tube that a clevis pin drops down, and what I thought was a U-channel is actually two of his weldments.

 

56bbc19faf89a_Johnny_Plow023.jpg.cb7b650

 

56bbc1abe68b6_Johnny_Plow024.jpg.53c02b1

 

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Tankman
On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2015 at 2:18 PM, PaulC said:

I got myself a plow for this coming winter season. It wasn't pretty so I decided to clean it up and paint it.

 

Then I decided to Pimp it out with an electric actuator for angling the blade. Works pretty nice now but we'll see if it can stand up to the potential beating it might see. IMG_1441.3gp

 

When installing the actuator did you install at 1/2 open at 90 degrees?   Full left angle, actuator fully extended? Full right angle, actuator fully closed?  :eusa-think:

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shallowwatersailor
17 hours ago, PaulC said:

 

interesting info John thanks! That actuator definitely is beefy and the thing that jumps out to me the most is how the actuator is mounted at almost a 45 degree angle to the blade, to where mine is mounted close to 90. Not sure that would have any effect or not though?

 

I think having it operate on an approximately 45- 80 degree angle lessens the stress on the actuator. The pivot bolt will share more of the load, I think.  But I still believe that it depends on the need to be heavy duty for this application. JB is selling them commercially with a warranty and I haven't found any complaint of them failing, other than one customer overworking the bucket.

 

 

Edited by shallowwatersailor
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